16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 798 Location: Indiana

I bought some WSF at a LGS for $39.95/lb. and started with a load of 18.4 grains with a CB 16 wad and Winchester primers. The load works ok but is a little stiff for my arthritic body, so I switched to a load using 17.8 grains of WSF. Again, that works ok but I'm still a bit bothered by the recoil. I'm wondering about a load using the #16 bushing in my MEC Jr., giving 16.2 grains of WSF and the aforementioned components. I'm using the black Remington Game Load hull because I have a lot of them.
Would 16 grains work ok or is that too light?
Would appreciate opinions from those who use WSF, thanks.

Joined: 13 Oct 2015 Posts: 427

Uhm... I don't see where you said the shot payload? Need that Wink

and which cb16 wad, the cb0100-16, or the cb0078-16?

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2530 Location: West MI

Perusing the spread sheets I see about 4 dozen loads in various hulls for WSF and very very few 7/8 (none lower) most 1-1.125oz and of those use 20-24grns in the 8-10k PSI and 1160-1220FPS ranges and only a couple/few go over 10k. Tells me WSF is a heavy lifting powder and reducing may be a dirty but not dangerous affair. Be cognizant of bloopers in very cold weather.

only this one for RGL...
Rem Plastic 1 oz. WSF 21.5 Rem 209P Rem SP-16 1282 10500 Lymans 5th

I can't imagine how trying 16grns, bloopers aside, would get you in trouble, worth a.... shot : )

That shared, I find Brewsters11's conclusions about 16ga target loading interesting, see below link and read or scroll down to B11's post on 5.23.25.

http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25823&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Perhaps one should consider and respect old wood , old eyes , old age.

I have proven for years with multiple thousands of game animals taken with 3/4 oz or less 5/8 oz and even 1/2 oz with choke .

Those light loads at high velocity are LETHAL on game from woodcock to Turkey and Geese.

Why on earth would anyone want to run the casino odds , old wood desinagration, detached retina, ECT . ECT.

Thinking more shot is going to compensate for poor pointing skills is simply expenditures of resources.

I know folks like to think that it increases their odds of taking game , well loading loads that doesn't hurt your gun nor yourself and being cheaper allows one to develop something you have to cultivate , muscle memory or skill set.

I took a Doctor to the Dakota's for 4 years before he put a pheasant in the bag , now Dave is a very solid shooter high B , low A class at Trap and grew up hunting pheasant.

I watched him turn roosters sideways over and over with a 12 ga. Citori with #4's even Peach couldn't recover the birds by the time I got to him with little ole Peach.

The year 4 we were coming by Scheels, stopped in Dave spyed a 16 ga . Citori , I checked the barrels out they looked regulated and straight with all the stock fit dimensions looking good for Dave .

I called Mike Lowery ( Skeetex ) asking him if the serial number fell in the good range , he confirmed it was.

I convinced this Doctor to shoot 3/4 oz #9's on the next trip up , he filled his game bag with not a crippled bird , doing this on consecutive trips as well.

Now I simply am attempting to help educate with WHAT WORKS 100 % of the time, learned and not hurt the the one doing the shooting.

Regards Nick

Joined: 30 Sep 2019 Posts: 202 Location: Colorado

Keep up the good work, Nick. It’s been a long time since I’ve shot anything but 3/4oz loads in my 16’s.

Hey Nick , I think in this case , that WSF just isn't the right tool for the job for lite loads . Love it for my 28ga stuff , but it is probably more in the Unique burn area .

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 2166 Location: Central ND

Nick, I have seen you post about the virtues about 1/2 and 5/8 oz. loads, but I have never seen the reloading data for them. Where can we get that data?

Here is a load that was tested by precision reloading:
fiocchi hull 2 3/4 and primer
dr16 wad
26 grains green dot
5/8 oz lead
15 gauge overshot card
6 point crimp
average velocity 1738 fps sd 25
average pressure 11440 sd 909
temperature 70

24 grains green dot was 1643 fps
9645 pressure

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 798 Location: Indiana

OK fellows, sorry for omissions; to clarify:

I'd be loading 1 ounces of shot. The wads used are CB0100-16 from Claybuster.

Reasons I'm using WSF:

1. It's one of the few powders available without going through the hassle of online shopping, shipping, hazmat etc.

2. At $39.99/lb. it's fairly sensibly priced.

3. I can also use it for my 20 gauge reloads.

In view of the above, the 16.2 grains of WSF in the black Rem hull seems reasonable to me. Further thoughts??

Sorry Mark :

I was not addressing the powder .

I was addressing the stress on the old wood and the physical constraints of the human physiology.

I was addressing the effectiveness of small charges of small shot at higher than accepted standards.

When one can only get due to availability a certain powder then that is the girl one dances with.

Reduction of a already kicking load to a level that is acceptable to the human physiology , reduces the effectiveness on living organisms we intend to kill.

This is exactly why I am always hesitant to offer any contribution to a thread unless it is directly related to myself.

Mike used to chuckle with delight when I did make a comment , I simply cringe at the rebuttal.

Mark you of all people know why I cannot visit on load data , as well as you of all people know how to work up a load that you want to test.

When one shoots an autoloader the world is different than a fixed breach gun that is a 50+ year old gun .

Having taken way in excess of 500+ folks to the Reservation over the years ( actually it's just shy of 1K ) I have had the finest research study that has ever been conducted concerning the use of shotguns, loads, styles, abilities , ECT ECT, on live quarry.

Like I told Ash Goodwin all of those years ago when he was hitting 30+% of Ariel targets ( I can make you shoot good but I simply can't make you look good , you will have to go to the other crowd to make you look good)

Ash's transformation to 90+% hits on flying targets is what I do.

Styles, clothes, boots to make you look good is not my venue.

Enough for now , back to shooting to keep up my skillset.

Regards Nick

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 798 Location: Indiana

Thanks for totally hijacking the thread and IGNORING my original post, Nick.

Joined: 13 Jun 2009 Posts: 705 Location: WA/AK

I have been loading the compression formed Winchester/Western 16-gauge Dove & Quail or UPLAND hulls with a Winchester 209, 20.5 grains of WSF, WAA-16 or later CB-16 and 1-ounce of shot for nearly 45 years. It might have been 473 when I started! The Winchester manuals showed 20-grains going 1165 fps and 21-grains going 1220 fps. In that my bushing throws 20.5-grains and I'm always striving for 1200 fps, that seemed good to me. I load 7/8-ounce with the DR-16 wad in the purple Federal hulls.

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 798 Location: Indiana

Researcher---I am using a load that seems workable---1 ounce lead shot, 16 grains of WSF, a 16 gauge CB0100-16 wad, Winchester or Cheddite primers and a black Remington Game load hull. Shot a round of skeet with this load out of a 16 gauge Citori Gran Lightning last weekend; no bloopers and broke 23/25 with it first time out.
Not sure of the velocity but it was relatively easy on recoil.

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2530 Location: West MI

Looks as though 16grns is working for you. Be interesting to know how dirty or complete the burn is? And if someone at your range has a chrono, what's its clocking at?

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 798 Location: Indiana

The 16.2 (to be exact) grain load of WSF does admittedly leave some residue in the barrels, but not bad. A skeet buddy had a chronograph last week at the club but I shot all my reloads up before I knew he had one on site. I'll have to get the load chronographed in the next couple weeks. I was curious about that too.