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Joined: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 1

Hi everyone - - I've always liked the '97. There's something about the 'clackety-clack' sound of these old pump guns when youre working the slide that appeals to me, as does the old fashioned exposed hammer. (Before all the silly 'safety devices' and warnings that we're plagued with today. They knew in those days that safety came from the fellow behind the gun.)- - I recently came across a very nice 16 gauge gun (my favorite upland chambering!) Any owners or fans out there for the '97 16 gauge ? What can you tell me about the gun ? Is it o.k. to use modern factory loads in it ? (Its marked as having a 2 3/4" chamber.) Thanks in advance for your comments. Regards, - - -

hopefully 1of the Model 97's will comemy way

they sure are neat old guns

enjoy yours

rayb

Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 56 Location: tulsa

The 16 ga 97 are good guns. If yours is marked for 2 3/4 it should work with most factory loadings. Remember at the youngest you are shooting a 50 year old gun give or take. I would not shoot any steel shot in it. 97s are hot properties with cowboy action shooters and the 16 ga has some advantages in that sport. Don't be surprised if you pattern it and find it shoots much tighter than would normally be associated with whatever choke it is marked. If it is a full choke, it might have a very tight pattern or a crappy pattern. Those guns were made before plastic wads and fold type crimps became the norm and companies started opening up the resrictions. Sometimes older full choke guns are overchoked for modern ammuntion and will not pattern well.

No, problem. That is a gun that takes a well done choke job very well. There aren't two barrels to regulate. However, Polywads can help too.

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Maine

Actually, winchester shotguns, especially small gauges tend not to be "overchoked" despite being from an era where naked shot was standard. I know for a fact that 16g model 12's marked "full" typically have about .022 constriction, which is more improved modified territory. I'll bet a 16g model 97 is the same. My model 12 heavy duck marked "full" is only .033, which is typical for a 12g model 12; this would be typical for a modern full screw choke gun. Keep in mind that the taper starts about 3 inches from the muzzle, and yes, she does shoot tight!
If this gun is marked "mod" or "IC", and is unaltered, I'd leave it as is, these are very desirable configurations for an older winchester. I doubt a gun marked "mod" would be more than .015; 16 and 20g model 12's marked "IC" are usually around .005.
So I have a 16g model 12 marked "full", and I sent it to briley and had thinwalls fitted... shame on me, but I'll tell you what, I've never looked back. But if I come accross a "mod" or "IC" gun I'll definately leave it as-is, they're somewhat rare.
Ditto on the spreader loads, I used them all the time before I had the thinwalls installed.

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

Pumpgun, just a few concurrences with your observations. I've got a M12 12ga from about 1950 marked Mod that is .009" and appears unaltered, I've measured a few IC M12 and M21 16ga barrels that come in at .004 and .005 and an IM M21 16ga barrel that comes in at just .015". I've got one M12 16ga Full barrel that has been altered and comes in at .017", the common thread here is the Win chokes seem to run right up to the muzzle with almost no parallel and that Full barrel has a good bit of it showing it be changed--like it was simply reamed to a given dimension.

I've always read that the old guns were choked tight. I don't think this was necessarily the case, given these Winchester barrels checked with a pull-through type caliper-readout gauge. I just got a "Duck" M12 and it comes in at .035" Two Super-X M1 barrels measure .031" for the IM Trap and .036 for the Full Trap, seem pretty consistent to me!

kgb