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<  16ga. Guns  ~  SxS vs O/U guns--what I've learned so far
16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:30 pm  Reply with quote
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I have been hunting this season with an AyA Matador SxS for the first time. It is handy, well balanced, and quick to the shoulder--- the first SxS I've ever been good with. It handles skeet targets very well with light spreader loads. I've already killed a fair number of different birds with it including snipe-- a very demanding bird to hit regularly. It is also a joy to carry. Inside of 30 yards, it is quick and deadly with the the Polywad based spreader loads for hunting I developed for it. In the dim light of early morning and in the deep rank cover of grouse and wood cock covens, that wide barrel casts an image thats quick and easy for the mind to pick up on---and my close work has never been better.

However, the pheasant are already becoming educated in my neck of the woods, the cover is thinning on their turf, and the ranges have increased. The AyA is a tightly choked gun that should be ideal with regular standard to heavy loads for the often longer ranges of late season pheasant hunting. Unfortunately, it ain't so. My O/U 16 Citori is a much easier gun to hit with out past 30 yards in the wide open pastures and such.

I suspect that I am discovering for myself what a lot of waterfowlers and trap shooters have known for years; the single sighting plane of an O/U, auto, or pump is more distinct, easier, and quicker to establish the correct barrel/bird image needed to kill them out at the longer ranges---at least in my experience. Longer ranges seem to demand a more quickly established, clearer image for the mind to know when its time to pull the trigger. It all has to be done rapidly and surely to hit the birds that get up outside of 20 yards. The AyA's wide barrel plane just doesn't do it as well as the Citori for me.

This may sound like heresy to some of you horizontal barreled gun shooters. I mean no disrespect. I'm just stating what works for me and perhaps why. My 16 ga. Citori is the better all around late season gun for my purposes. Perhaps each tool should be used with its best application in mind and to its best purpose. Perhaps SxS guns are best used in the close cover, and others out where the ranges get long. So be it. I never argue with success.
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Brian Meckler
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:41 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 265

To each his own as the saying goes.

For years I couldn't figure out why I shoot a SxS better than an O/U. Many people gave me suggestions and opinions but nothing changed.


I then found that I am the rare shooter with central vision. That means either eye can sight the target equally. There is no fix for such a problem except blocking one eye's vision.

That's where a SxS comes in handy. If one places his left hand in the correct position then the left eye's long range vision is slightly burred making the central vision shooter sight the target only with the right eye.
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Chukarman
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:08 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 173
Location: S. E. Arizona

16gaugeguy wrote:
I
This may sound like heresy to some of you horizontal barreled gun shooters. I mean no disrespect. I'm just stating what works for me and perhaps why. My 16 ga. Citori is the better all around late season gun for my purposes. Perhaps each tool should be used with its best application in mind and to its best purpose. Perhaps SxS guns are best used in the close cover, and others out where the ranges get long. So be it. I never argue with success.


The issue is not the type of gun you are shooting. It is your style of shooting the SxS vs. the O/U.

If you are shooting spreader loads in the SxS and sweeping the target 'instinctively' then the same technique will not work for longer shots. You need to use a sustained lead or pull away technique.

BTW, the last time I looked, all my SxS guns had a 'single sighting plane'. The 'single sighting plane' explanation is simply another skeet field myth, originally started by an company peddling O/U guns, I expect.

I actually own several O/U guns, and quite a few SxS guns a well. My Perazzi Mirage shoots a lot like my Model 21 Duck Gun. In fact the SxS is a lot easier to operate in a duck blind, because the barrel drop when ejecting and reloading is much less that on an O/U gun.

An O/U gun DOES have a single advatage over the SxS gun. It is easier for the shooter to see under the barrels, which is important in maintaining lead on rising or high incoming targets. This is one reason that it is very effective for sporting clays and dove/duck shooting.

C Man

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mdoerner
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:31 am  Reply with quote
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Since your SxS shoots well for close targets with spreaders, it may actually be regulated for 20-30 yard shots, but then at 40 yards the shot may be "crossing over". Patern it and see definitively... I seemed to shoot O/U's better at clas than my SxS's but I got rid of 'em anyways because the SxS's feel better to me than an O/U....I'd say do what you've been doing for this season and then after the season's over take your SxS and see where the patern is reltive to where you've been aiming.....

Mike Doerner
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:24 am  Reply with quote
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One of the first things I do is pattern a new or unfamiliar shotgun for POI, especially doubles of either type. Mis-regulated barrels are a pain. They happen more frequently than they should, especially on bargain doubles, but even on supposedly well made guns.

My AyA has very well regulated barrels with 1 to 1-1/8 ounce loads and shoot to within 2" of each other at 40 yards. With lighter loads, they shoot to within an inch at 30 yards. Lighter loads than normal for a gauge often converge at closer ranges due to the lesser effect the lighter recoil has on the barrels. it works well too if you think about it.

My right eye is dominent and extremely well trained after years of competative two eyed shooting. It is definately not a cross dominent thing. In fact, the AyA handles trap targets very well.

But trap targets are not birds. Game birds do not fly at all like clay targets. Sustained lead shooting on a rising, accelerating, then diving, then curving, then turning and slowing bird doesn't work well. I use a modified swing through or pull ahead method on longer range birds that works very well for me. the method helps me establish the right relative gun speed for each bird and lets me lead them with the momentum of the gun as it passes through the flight line of the target (the bird's body) from the rear forward. The shot breaks as my mind picks up the right gap ahead of the bird. This is happening as the gun is accelerating away in front of the bird's head. It is purely instinctive. The trigger is pulled without conscious thought and the follow through is automatic. If the gun has sufficient mass and inertia, in my case 6-1/2 lbs minimun, my system works very well for me.

As I said, each to his own. If anyone shoots their SxS doubles gun better than any other type, then they would be foolish to go to another type, regardless of anyone elses say so or experience. However, it seems that the majority of folks I've talked with about the three types of barrels, horizontal or vertical doubles, or a single barrel have said they prefer the last two for longer range, faster ,or smaller targets over an SxS. If this was not so, history and experience would not bear me out. Vertually no serious and competative trap, skeet or SC shooter uses a SxS today(excluding the vintagers and SxS groups of course).

I did not mean to slight anyone's favorite gun here. However, the amount of responses in defense of SxS guns tends to confirm what I've suspected. The silence of the O/U and single barrel gun shooters also seems to support my experience.

But carry and shoot what you want to. That is your right and privelege, more power to you. I would rather quit shooting than see anyone be forced into shooting a gun they do not care for because of popular opinion or prejudice. Shooting and hunting is much more than the gross score or amount of birds bagged. It must satisfy the shooter/hunter in other just as important ways which are as individual as one's own heart beat and as varied as the human race itself. It is the total experience that matters. I hope yours are as fullfilling as mine have been.
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