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kayaker
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:57 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 2

Has anyone used a the Spartan SPR210 Field?

I like the idea of getting my first 16ga at that price with multi choke.

BUT...on their site they list the LOP as 13.5" !!!! Thats super short!!!

I am 6'4", so no gun fits well but DeHaan and Stoeger both have 14.5" (and DeHaan gives you cast off)

13.5" seems like a 'youth' model to me or does their stock shape make the most of this??

Alos, does Spartan build on a 16ga frame? 7lbs seems a bit heavy and also equal to the 12ga weight, seems they have a 12ga and 20ga frame only?

Thanks
Brian

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:43 am  Reply with quote
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I believe thr Spartan is the same gun as the other SXS imported from Russia. The 16 is indeed built on the 12 ga. frame. Russian sporting arms tend to be built like a T-34 Stalin tank. They are bull strong, but heavy and very utilitarian. I've tried shooting a 12 ga. and had better success waiting for the clay to land, then clubbing it to pieces. I simply can't shoot them for beans. You are probably better off with a DeHaan. for the extra cost, you are getting a much better handling gun.

Anyone with the tools can make a shotgun. That is a piece of pipe or two with a firing mechanism welded on the back, then screwed to a hunk of wood. However, it probably won't serve to kill a game bird dead in the air. Only bird guns can make it possible to do such with any regularity. So often, you gets what you pays for if only you knows what you want.
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Scolari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:08 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 07 Jul 2004
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I saw some Spartan guns at a gun show. I guess for the money, they are OK but they certainly lack in fit and looks. I think I would look at the "Real 16" by traditions or the Tristar models. I even saw a Verona that wasn't bad. I didn't shoot any of them so I really don't know.
I did talk to a dealer who was trying to get a new Spartan sent back for repair. He called Remington and they refered him to EAA. After several phone calls, he still didn't have a resolution to his problem. I guess Remington sells them but thats all.
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dodge
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:03 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1
Location: NC Pa.

I have a Baikal 16 gauge and stand 6'5" and the gun fits me okay. I also have a Stoeger 12 gauge Condor and the stock seems just a little long for me. I catches on my coat or shirt whenever I try to do some snap shootin. The Baikal doesn't and seems to be lighter than the Condor. Ths Baikal is a little muzzle heavy but that helps to smooth out my swing. To the best knowledge the Baikal is the same gun as the Spartan.
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fowler
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:16 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 136
Location: ohio

The spartans are good field guns for the money. The Spanish doubles are better then the Turkish guns. The Utarchea are the best for the money. Lion supply has them. Bill Hanus has some BSA doubles that are not bad,but not as good as the Uggie.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:10 pm  Reply with quote
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From what I've seen, the Spartan would make a great squirrel gun. I'm sure that is the market Remington is counting on. It is not a bird gun by any stretch of the imagination unless you have had a bit more vodka than is wise. Wink The older Baikel SxS guns were better made and better balanced, but still a bit too utilitarian for solid wingshooting.

If you want a good inexpensive bird gun, look around for a used Ithaca pump and rework the stock to suit you. They are way underrated and underpriced, at least around my area. Single barreled guns are easier and cheaper to be made to shoot where you are looking.

Good cheap SxS or O/U guns are a myth. Most have cross eyed barrels that pattern where they will. Getting a good one is a crap shoot. Barrel/pattern regulation takes time, labor, and refined methods most inexpensive gun manufacturers either do not bother with or reserve for the better guns they make. The same must be said about weight distribution and reduction. That goes for U.S., Italian, Turkish, Russian, Spanish, Czech, Yugoslavian or anyone else you can think of. Time, labor, and tooling is money and that cost has to be passed on to make a profit, period.

That is why I'll bet on the Citori anytime. Realistically considering the price, Miroku does a good job on barrel regulation, weight control, and balance. Plus, if your new Browning O/U is not regulated to their spec, which is within 4" center to center at 40 yards, (and I've had a few) the company will make it right. They always have for me...everytime without unecessary argument or stonewalling. I wish I could say that for some other companies including to my surprize and disappointment, Beretta among others.
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fowler
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:10 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 136
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I tryed the ou from browning and Berreta and went back to the the double SXS for point,weight and shot regulation. I find the english pattern game gun the best. And Some of the best made Spanish guns are great. For close to $2000 you can have a Best gun knock-o-bout. 6lbs to 6.5 lbs. ANd yes the Ithaca M-37 in 16 ga. has great between the hands feel and point. A great gun in 16ga.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:55 am  Reply with quote
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Judging from my AyA Matador, the 1960's version of a knockabout Spanish double, I'd have to say you are right about those Spanish SxS guns. However, the neareast model they now make is the 453 basic boxlock. Both guns look about the same I'll bet a 26" open choked version would be a good gun.

However, the cheapest I've seen are about 2.6 to 2.8K. Thats a far cry from 2k and a loud scream from the 1k-1.3k I've paid for my 16 ga. GrI Citori models. These handle every bit as well as the Matador for me, are built of better steel, weigh a tad less, and are more versitile to boot. However, if someone can direct me to a 453 for a decent price, I'd look into the matter seriously. It would have to be well under 2k for me to be interested. I don't think a 453 warrents the big difference in price on a value for value basis. Just my opinion.
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fowler
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:27 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
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If you like the Citrori and it fits and works for you that is good. For me the Browning Citori was troublesome . First in the thick grouse multi-rose thickets and ruff bush areas the selector was allways moving from barrel to barrel and safety going on and off. Second I split by thumb nail on the action lever after fighting the safety selector on a double grouse flush. Pain and blood no more. The double SXS works better for me with simple on off safety and double triggers gives me insant barrel selection. And the SXS gives me a double wide site plane. The Uggie from LION Country is a good basic low end best base knock-a-bout hunting sxs. Allso I use the M-37 with 26" vent barrel in 16ga. with the Imp-cyl choke tube 8 shot. And later in season 7.5 with mod. My sxs is loose mod and full. 8 in first and 7.5 in second. I like the English stock and splinter forearm with hard plastic buttplate for smooth and fast shooting. Its like radar on point and scores at least 2 out of 3 shots. So is upland hunting and sometimes %50-%50 on a off day. They fly like a devil demon trying to put as much distance and trees and terrian between you and them darn Grouse. Like a cruise missle on a mission! The 16 carrys great at 6-6.5Lbs.in the rolling spoil banks of S.E. Ohio And Upper Mich.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:55 am  Reply with quote
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Sorry to here you have had a problem with your Browning. I'd have to hazard a guess that it was an individual gun problem based on my experience. My Citori safety/selectors have always been easy to flick off or on, and have never moved on me when I did not want them to.

I hunt some of the damndest thick scrub oak cover on Cape Cod. This stuff is laced with bull briars and wild rose. It makes concertina wire look simple to negotiate. Worse, its understory is just high enough for a determined dog to slip through when tracking a running rooster. Once the dog is on a hot track, calling them off a bird is harder than following them. Plus, the local grouse love it, because small acorns abound, and they are quite safe from most threats. So in I go. My hunting pants and coat show it too. Very Happy At days end, my legs look like I've been playing in broken glass. Who says we aren't willing to bleed some for our sport.

All that aside, you have a system that works for you. I have no wish to convert you. I'd even like some more info on these Uggies you keep refering to. I've tried to get a line on the internet but can't find a thing. Perhaps you can enlighten us. By the way, what happened to your 16ga. citori? hint, hint!
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fowler
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:34 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 136
Location: ohio

Fine shotguns at www.doubleshotgun.com The Uggie I have is the boxlock -1. A plain field gun ,but very good in form and shooting. For $1299 a very good value. Double guru ,Michael Mac'intosh here there the best gun for the $$$ Bushed firing pins double underlugs and fine fit and finish. This is my second one the first was a 12ga. The Browning was traded in.
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fowler
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:35 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 136
Location: ohio

A typo,www.doubleshotguns.com,sorry
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