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Yup. don't forget who is the senior senator for my state. Uncle Teddy doesn't like things that go bang. Just thank your lucky stars he permenantly shot his own chances to be president all to hell at chappaquittic bridge. What a drunken moron he has been. I can't wait until his liver goes boom. I believe that with his demise, the sun will finally set on the Kennedy clan and their cockamamy ideas about how life should be for a free society....free to do anything they approve of.

Talk about blind arrogance. Pappa Joe saw himself and his sons as rulers by right of money and all that it can buy. Their legacy should serve as a clear warning just how easy it is to buy power in this nation, and how fragile our freedoms really are. Jefferson said that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. How much more right could he have been?

We have been paying for our collective mistake of buying into The hollow promises JFK, the democratic party, and the media of the early 60's seduced us with. I hope the party comes out of all this learning its lesson about how Americans feel about infringment of rights. I hope americans come out of all this learning not to trust what they see and hear on the surface from the media. I also hope the individual states liston and learn the message the Bush administration is sending about the dangers of depending on too powerful a central government for money. That is how the Feds do it. Control the purse strings and everything else falls in line.

Only time will tell if any good comes of all this. We need to reinstate state's rights. Life in America is too varied from region to region. What is good in the midwest may not suit New England well. The South has different wants and needs that the West Coast. Large urban societies should not be able to dictate policy to rural societies. That is why too much centralization of power is as bad as each state being too indifferent to each other's needs. It has always been a question of balance. We got way out of it in the last half of the 20th century. We need to somehow correct ourselves or down the slippery slope we go.

Joined: 20 Apr 2005 Posts: 29 Location: Traverse City, MI

I was wrong, Guy -- it appears you and I, after all, were separated at birth.

Amen, Brother Steve...Oh ya, and...if I may go out on a limb here...Brother Larry.

Joined: 20 Apr 2005 Posts: 29 Location: Traverse City, MI

Larry's ex-CIA and a retired US Army Colonel. It's a pretty stout limb, and there's no wind.

And the view ain't too shabby either.

Joined: 18 Apr 2005 Posts: 44 Location: Troy, MI

Teddy doesn't like things that go "bang"......I hear he doesn't like things that goes "splash", either! Twisted Evil

Not quite true. He loves the sound of ice or soda splashing into the booze his family imports. Thats where all the money comes from. He likes the sound of all the booze splashing into his own tumbler. It helps him forget all the miserable things he and his family have done and how hated he is for it all. He also liked the sound the car made when it went off the bridge. He wasn't in it. He didn't mind the sound he made when he jumped in to make it look like an accident. He just didn't like all the questions that followed, the doubts he raised, and the political fall out that put his national ambitions in terminal status. One family can be responsible for only so many deaths before people finally wake up and start fighting back. Its called survival. So far, we've managed to do just that.

I just wish the political system was not as corrupt in Ma. as it is. He is going to be our Senator for life, regardless of how we really vote here, because too many do not bother to. There are enough unexercised ballots that can be "appropriated." That is how it is done. In other words, if we don't vote, we not only do not exercise our right, but in many cases, we make it possible for someone to use the ballot in our place. If you doubt my warning, get involved in the process and witness the corruption that goes on.

Florida 2000 was no accident. The Democrats thought they had enough stolen votes to win and the Republicans outflanked them. They finally got whupped at their own game and then cried foul.

In the 60's and 70's, The Democrats extended the right to vote to both more uninformed, and younger, less commited people, not because it was better for the people, but because they knew there would be more uncast ballots to steal, especially at the local and state level. The Republicans were gaining too much ground due to the disasterous policies the Democrats had put in place, especially in suburbia and in rural areas, away from the cities. This huge influx of uncommited votes in the urban areas was the edge the Democrats needed to keep the power.

It was just another variation on the old ward politics of the 19th, and early 20th centuries. It is why they win consistantly in the more heavily populated cities. It is easier to steal votes not only because of the sheer bulk of ballets cast per precinct, but also because of the more transient and less committed nature of political behavior in the urban areas.

The key to understanding this is to realize that neither party has had a clear majority for decades. There are more undeclared voters now than in either party, and many of those alienated folks don't vote much. However, more undeclared urban voters do not vote than suburban or rural voters do, because the vast majority of urbanites don't own land or property. They don't feel they have as much at stake, and are more apt not to vote.

The short of it is, if you don't vote, you get exactly what you deserve...life as a sheep to be sheared by the political wolves we have in office and their supporters. Both parties are about as good at this political shell game as the other now. Carreer politicians have too much at stake to risk relying on a fair and properly administered election system. Until we get meaningful term limits in place, and true representational quotas in both house and senate instead of the first past the post, winner take all system we have now, the systematic corruption will stay in place.

Joined: 14 Nov 2005 Posts: 136 Location: ohio

I have loaded the 1-1/4 oz copper and nikel plated buffered loads in the 16 using the Ballistic products loading book the 16ga. Killed several turkeys with these loads and the factory Federal 1-1/4oz. copperplated Mag. load. In a 30" single barrel Iverjohnson 16 single barrel and a 28" full Ithaca M-37 pump made in the 50,s.

Fowler,

Thanks for bringing the conversation back to the subject!

I have to fight the "small gun" falicy every time I hunt with my brothers-in-law, from where I just returned. All shoot Browning Golden Hunter 12's (save one 870), and think that when I miss with my 16ga doubles, it's the fault of the gun! I try to tell them the gun will do its job if I just do mine, but I know they don't believe me (funny, though; when they chase a bird with 3 or 4 shots from their 12's I don't hear much about it). I sometimes think about getting a 12 auto just to show them I can miss with that too...nah!

Fin

I haven't hunted geese in 25 years, but I used to use a 16 gauge when I was a kid. I shot Peters magnums with #2 or #4 lead shot. I always killed all I wanted.
I don't hunt Turkeys but I know people kill them with a 20 gauge so a 16 should work. What you said about factory ammunition is true. You can't always buy what you want. This summer I was at a Gander Mountain store and bought some of those Turkey head paper targets. I wanted to see what I had that would throw the tightest pattern. I used all the loads I had for the 16 and 20 gauge. So far the most hits came from a 20 gauge Fiocchi 3 inch magnum. I just bought a box of 20 gauge Heavy Shot and need to try them. Maybe I'll post my results.

Member Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 258 Location: Nordern MN

Greetings yall,
Saw the topic and had to chip in. I'm 25, but I've got the 16ga bug just like my Pa does. Must be genetic. Anyway . . .

My Pa has had great success on canada geese with Tungsten Matrix #5. It's pretty impressive - better than 12ga steel in my opinion! Get em over the decoys and it's all over!

Best,
Nick