I must concur with Bronco. The last PH I hunted with was quite a student of guns and ballistics. Loaded his own for use on dangerous game.
He used a Belgian 470 double or a 1917 Enfield in 450 Ackley depending on what he was chasing on that particular day and the brush conditions.
He was most emphatic that a double with one trigger simply wasn't a double, but a rifle that happens to have two barrels. He insisted on 2 seperate hammers, strikers, sears etc for reliability.
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Location: NW Florida
Agreed. For me, learning to shoot a gun with two triggers was an exercise in frustration, trying to decide which bbl to use for a particular shot. I grew up hunting and busting clays with my Grandfather's 16ga M12. In the last year I acquired a 20ga Fox and, most recently, a Chas. Smith & Sons 16ga. The transition would have been much simplified dealing with just one trigger, but a SxS just looks right with double triggers. O/U's look perfectly normal with single triggers. Call me old fashioned or just a romanticist. Bob
PS. I would like to find a H&H Royal Grade .450 3 1/4in that cannot be used for hunting anymore due to it's age:)
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Location: Plains, MT.
A fella can learn a great deal about dangerous game hunting here, but for me Eastern Montana pheasants are as close as I will get. My first hunts there taught me the value of selecting a choke fast. My choice of manufacture made selection dificult to say the least. Later I switched to SxSs and O/Us with double triggers. Practical selection of the right choke was assured. The ejectors have never been an issue since after two shots there is normally time to take care of the reloading in a calm manner. The extractors were nice when a rancher asked me not to leave the hulls in the field but ejectors were fine when I upgraded shotguns. The target shooting I do is trap with a 57E Beretta with 30 in. tubes and double triggers. The guys chuckle and I can blame the lack of a single trigger trap gun for my shooting in the low 20s. In sumation, for me double triggers are needed for upland.
Game guns and and trap guns are different types . The trap guns are long in the single or ou barrel and tight in the choke. Some even have a release a trigger. In the field on a SXS game gun the two triggers works the best for me insant barrel choice . On a trap gun one trigger is my choice too. Two different types of sport and two types of irons. I tell my wife shotgunning is like golf you need 18 shotguns.
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
If anyone wants a gun with two triggers, that is his right and priveledge based on the fact that he is spending the money. It is his inclination based on his opinion. But when all is said and done, unless that gun is sufficiently and frequently practiced with, it will always be just that, opinion and no more.
The Browning system of safety/selector is more than adaquate for the job if practiced with--regardless of the odd claim to the contrary based on a few bad experiences. To condemn the system as slower is pure baloney.
The common hunting practice of keeping your gun on safe until you start to shoulder the piece for the shot is a well tested, highly and universally recommended safe practice. Flicking the Browning safety/selector left or right forward as choke selection demands takes no more time or effort than the same move with a simple top tang safety. Either way, it is still one forward motion with the thumb, period. It is simple to do if one is practiced with it. In fact, I could argue that flicking the safety off with your thumb while simultaneously moving your index finger to the correct trigger takes more time, coordination, and practice.
Trap guns aside, if a two trigger system were faster, then the vast majority of twin barrelled sporting clays guns would have them too. They do not. Most solid practioners of the low gun version of this game can select a choke while flicking the safety off as they simultaneously raise their gun at the selected target and do it in the blink of an eye --without thought and without breaking concentration on the target. It is a move based on pure rote acquired by frequent practice. It must be so, because thinking about the gun will only distract from concentrating on the target. That will lower the score sure as there is air. The same applies for killing a game bird well and surely. Hunting guns and sporting clays guns are for all intents and purposes, nearly identical and serve much the same purpose. In fact, sporting clays originated from hunter's clays, a game designed for hunting practice.
But this whole tread is getting silly, because most posters have left out references to practice and the need for it. It takes practice and more practice to become familiar with either system or any system for that matter. I'm certain I could become very adept at using two triggers if the need arose, but I'd have to practice it for a period of time. Since my Brownings have always been up to the job, I've never needed to master two triggers. I don't condemn either system, but I do look at them realistically.
My Remington 1100 has a safety button at the rear of the trigger guard. I'm just as adept with it as a top tang safety. Again, practice has provided me with the confident familiarity needed to use it. Because I practiced with it until it was second nature, I've never missed a shot because of this system either.
Pulling a single trigger twice will always be a few thousandths of a second faster than pulling one trigger, then moving the finger to the second trigger, then pulling it. The same can be said for a release/pull trigger system over a double release trigger system. Release/ pull will always be faster than release/ pull (to set the second trigger)/release. Its two moves verses three. Its a simple matter of time and motion. You can't logically argue with physics, the time continuum, or your own anatomy-- not unless your own prejudices have replaced reality in your personal existence. However, if you are not thoroughly practiced with any system, you'll always be slower than the man who is.
If you are a well practiced and capable shot, then only one shot will be needed most of the time. Any safety and trigger system will do under these conditions. But the key is practice and always will be. The hunter or shooter who leaves his chosen gun in the closet most of the year will never be as practiced, as adaquately familiar with, or as capable with his gun as the man who practices frequently with his. To claim otherwise is to "be a legend in your own mind" as Dirty Harry put it so well .
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Location: Kansas High Plains
Side by side double guns with one trigger look funny. I could care less about O/U's since I don't own one and never will. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
_________________ I feel a warm spot in my heart when I meet a man whiling away an afternoon...and stopping to chat with him, hear the sleek lines of his double gun whisper "Sixteen." - Gene Hill, Shotgunner's Notebook
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Location: Jackson, Mississippi
Hey 16GG. Also I try to never say never, but I don't recall anyone being trampled to death by a wounded "bull" quail.
Interesting discussion, I always felt like it came down to personal preference of ST vs DT on upland guns, particularly with the new guns. I have to agree with Larry though, that the seems to have had reliability issues in the not so distant past, particularly on sxs.
On a lighter note, fishjerker had me rolling with that image of the runaway wounded "bull" quail... too funny.
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
FJ, I doubt you will ever be in danger quail hunting, at least from the quail. however, downing a pair on a covey flush is not easily done if the shooter is not practiced, smooth, and quick. I've seen my share of easy doubles flubbed by guys who fumble around with their guns while the birds wing off. I've then have had to listen to these "brave hunters" cuss the gun rather than their own lack of ability because they refuse to practice shooting regularly.
I used to hunt wild quail on a regular basis when I lived in Florida. During this time, I was also shooting skeet regularly at the now defunct Orange County Trap and Skeet Club. The more I practiced low gun skeet, the better my quail shooting got. Cleanly taking doubles with my Winchester 101 20 ga. O/U became common place. The gun had a single selective trigger system identical to the Citori. It is not the arrow but the indian. If you are a solid shot with your twin triggered SXS, then more power to you. If not, then get thee to a skeet range and practice until you are.
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