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<  16ga. Guns  ~  browning a5 16ga info request???
bustingclays
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:17 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Illinois (in the burbs of St. Louis)

Gentlemen:

I came into posession of a Browning A5 a couple of years ago that I'm curious about. Yes, it is a 16 ga with 26" barrel and **- barrel marks that I interpret to be IC. Also has the safety in front of the trigger guard and the magazine by-pass. Blond wood with the typical forearm cracks - some slight dings/scratches. I would rate the gun about 80% - it was leaned in a corner and there is some slight pitting on the barrel at that location and also on one side of receiver. Slays the clay birds in skeet and sporting clays - it particularly likes factory remington field loads (black) in 8s and 7.5s Smile

The gun is marked on the barrel (it has matted barrel):

Browning Arms Co St. Louis

2 3/4 " special steel

Made in Belgium

the Serial number (in the 10,000 range) is preceded by an x (this is what throws me)

X 101xx

How old do you think it is?

What do you think it might be worth (I gave $135 for it Laughing )?

What does the 'X' stand for?

One of these days I might send it over to MidWest GunWorks and have them go through it, touch up the engrqaving, reblue, and restore wood.

thanks for any input.....

_________________
good shooting.....

Dr. 16 Gauge
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:18 am  Reply with quote
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Bustin,
You're right, **- is the mark for IC.
The X is just a prefix used to denote the resumption of production post German occupation. They started serial nos over at X 1000 and had reached X 13700 all during 1947. All these X prefix guns are standard weight.
Interestingly, Eastman says the guns produced from 1947-51 were made by Remington (about 46,000 total). Is there any indication of Remington production on your gun?

Tough to value without seeing it, but a standard wt 16 as you describe - probably $300-400.

Pete
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mdoerner
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:11 am  Reply with quote
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I thought I heard somewhere that the Remington made Brownings did not have the magazine cut-off. FWIW.

Mike Doerner
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:34 am  Reply with quote
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According to Eastman, the post war guns "were essentially the Remington Model 11 with the magazine cutoff".

What puzzles me is the "Made in Belgium".

Pete
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offhand35
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:25 pm  Reply with quote
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The X prefix in s/n X101xx denotes a post-war 16ga with factory 2 3/4" chamber.
This gun was mfg'd between 1/15/1947 and 6/30/1947
and is part of the first Belgian production after the war.

The American Brownings were indeed made by Remington under contract from July 16, 1940 until sometime in 1947.

The engraving on the American Brownings was very different from that found on Belgian production. Also, American Browning serial #'s are located on the left side of the receiver, just as they are on the Model 11, as opposed to the bottom of the receiver in Belgian models. The St Louis address is on the American Browning, but not stamped, "made in Belgium". Also, the American Brownings have a receiver model code in addition to the s/n:

A -- 16 ga
B -- 12 ga
C -- 20 ga

There are some later "A" and "B" model code Belgian Brownings, but the s/n's are located on the bottom of the receiver, in front of the loading port.

NOTE: The reference that I am using:

BROWNING AUTO-5 SHOTGUNS, The Belgian Production; H.M. Shirley, Jr., and Anthony Vanderlinden, Wet Dog Publications, Greensboro, NC, 2003

Anthony was the Secretary for the Browning Collector's Association for quite some time, and is currently working for FN in historical research, among other things.
I don't know Mr. Shirley personally, but I do know that he has been a long standing member of the BCA, if not a founding member, and is currently on the Board of Directors.

Hope this helps.

ps: $135 for a good shooting 16ga A-5 can't be beat! Most people pay a lot more than that for even an 80% gun.
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bustingclays
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:26 am  Reply with quote
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offhand35 wrote:
The X prefix in s/n X101xx denotes a post-war 16ga with factory 2 3/4" chamber.
This gun was mfg'd between 1/15/1947 and 6/30/1947
and is part of the first Belgian production after the war.

The American Brownings were indeed made by Remington under contract from July 16, 1940 until sometime in 1947.

The engraving on the American Brownings was very different from that found on Belgian production. Also, American Browning serial #'s are located on the left side of the receiver, just as they are on the Model 11, as opposed to the bottom of the receiver in Belgian models. The St Louis address is on the American Browning, but not stamped, "made in Belgium". Also, the American Brownings have a receiver model code in addition to the s/n:

A -- 16 ga
B -- 12 ga
C -- 20 ga

There are some later "A" and "B" model code Belgian Brownings, but the s/n's are located on the bottom of the receiver, in front of the loading port.

NOTE: The reference that I am using:

BROWNING AUTO-5 SHOTGUNS, The Belgian Production; H.M. Shirley, Jr., and Anthony Vanderlinden, Wet Dog Publications, Greensboro, NC, 2003


ps: $135 for a good shooting 16ga A-5 can't be beat! Most people pay a lot more than that for even an 80% gun.



OK - WOW. Great information. I looked the gun over briefly last night again and I see a small FN in a circle over the serial number on the bottom of the receiver as per your description.

The serial number is NOT on the side of the receiver, nor is there an A, B, or C model code.

Now here are some other questions:

on the side of the bolt there are some markings:

the first is an *F

below which there appears to be a small standing "lion" (my eyes ain't what they used to be)

below which there is an engraved line _____________

below which there is a P.V (no period after the V)

any ideas as to what this means????


p.s.s. I get 16 ga deals all the time at the 3-4 clubs I shoot at. Part of the dying breed I guess. Last year I bought more than 35 boxes of 16 ga ammo for $75 (8s, 7.5s, 6s, 5s, 4s, and 2s) from one individual - had it from an estate. There are Activ, Remington Express, Peters, and lots of Federal shells. I am also given lots of loose 16 ga shells all the time - go figure. Now if I could just get them to give me 28s and 410s!

good shooting.....

_________________
good shooting.....

Dr. 16 Gauge
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:58 am  Reply with quote
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Offhand,
Thanks for clarifying some areas in which Eastman contradicts himself.
That'll teach me to rely on 20 yr old data. Though in fairness to him, he says a lot of his info was sketchy since it was near impossible to get accurate records from Browning on items still in production (ie the A-5 in the mid '80s).

Who sells the book you mention?
Thanks
Pete
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offhand35
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:36 pm  Reply with quote
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bustingclays.....the markings you describe are Belgian proof marks....Belgium has [had] an elaborate system of proofing firearms at each phase of construction......

Again, from Shirley & Vanderlinden's book:

The underlined lion with P.V = "Proof with smokeless powder (PV stands for Poudre Vive - smokeless powder)"


The *F = "Proof mark of the controller (letter codes changed with controller. These codes are assigned to the controller for as long he works for the proof house. This does not refer to any initials)"


foursquare:

information on the book that I referred to can be found on Anthony's website for Wet Dog Publications:

www.fn-browning.com

He has also written and published some other books about FN and Browning .... enjoy....

If you have anything more than a passing interest in the Auto-5, you will really want to consider buying this book!
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