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< 16ga. Guns ~ Citori vs Merkel |
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Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:45 am
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Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 58
Location: Chattanooga, TN
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I just returned from Pheasant hunting in Dallas, SD. It was a great hunt! We found hundreds of Pheasants and quite a few Chukkars and Grouse. I limited out each day. I wanted to shoot a different gun each day so I brought my Merkel 2016EL and a couple of Berettas (12 ga). We landed in Sioux Falls and went to Scheels to get our licenses prior to driving to Dallas. They have an extensive gun library at Scheels and I couldn't resist taking a look. I found a new 16 gauge Grade III Citori with 28 in Invector barrels on sale for $1599.95! I bought it! It was such a great price I couldn't pass it up. (They also had the same model with 26 in barrels for the same price.) I shot a 12 ga Beretta the first day with IC/M chokes in the gun and could not miss! I shot the 16 ga Citori the second day with IC/M chokes installed and did very well. I shot the 16 ga Merkel the third day and had to really work to connect, usually hitting the bird with the second barrel if I hit it at all! I experienced the same thing last year on quail here in Tenn. There is something about the Merkel that doesn't work for me. However, with the 16 gauge Citori I had had no problem bringing down birds. There are a lot of great guns out there, but my experience proves that to the individual the cost of a gun doesn't neccessarily guarantee you can hit with it. I am sticking with the Citori in my future 16 gauge endeavors and looking for a new home for the Merkel!
Paul Dwight
Chattanooga, TN |
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Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:02 pm
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Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 265
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The chokes in the Merkel are very tight. I know they say IC/Mod but mine patterns Mod IM and even sometimes M/F depending on the ammo. |
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Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:19 pm
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Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 58
Location: Chattanooga, TN
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Brian,
You are correct about the chokes, they are tight. I think my issue is with fitment. I would imagine they are just as tight on the O/U 2016 as they are on the SxS 1620. Did you sell your 1620? I saw your gun was for sale in Sept.
Paul |
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Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:32 pm
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Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 265
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Paul,
I did sell the 1620 and my Garbi. I ordered a 16 gauge CSM 21 flatside custom. In about 9 months I should be feeling pretty good about the sale. |
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Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:36 am
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Yep, Brian sold his 1620..............to me. What an incredible gun! It is choked tighter than expected, but sure powders the clays. I can't wait to get it out in the field. I have Citoris in 12 and 20 and they are also great guns, but the Merkel is a totally different experience.
Paul, I think you should work with the Merkel more and sell me your Citori.......! Seriously, if your Merkel was in a different gauge/configuration I would probably be looking at it.
Brian, thanks again for the Merkel. Everyone who looks at it comments on the wood and workmanship. |
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Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:52 pm
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Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 58
Location: Chattanooga, TN
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I think I'll keep the Citori. Maybe my preference for it and it's siblings that I own (Citori 16 ga grade 1 Lighting, Citori 16 ga Superlight, Citori 20 ga High-Post Skeet) comes from the fact that I spent most of my Air Force career in the Pacific not Europe. But that logic doesn't work with my accuracy with my Beretta. At any rate the Merkel is on the block and I have a buyer. I hope you continue to do well with those tight chokes, and you are right in the admirers those Merkels attract.
Paul |
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Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:54 pm
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Member
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 1522
Location: NH
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For what it's worth my 1620 Merkel also had tight chokes. It was listed as Imp/Imp Mod. I attempted to have Briley install their thin wall choke tubes. Couldn't do it as there was not enough metal. So I had them bore it out to Skeet/Skeet 2. Hunting birds over the dogs here in NJ and at the preserve in Pa it has worked great. It is probably a little too open for hunting wild birds out west now. But I'll still give it a try if I get out there next year like I'm planning.
I really wish they could have put the chokes in. Oh well.
In comparison I also have a Citori Feather in 16 ga. It does well when I do my part, but it's not the Merkel. |
_________________ A bad day of hunting is better than a good day of work. |
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Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:45 pm
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Member
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 18
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
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TJC,
Don't be too quick in discounting those chokes for hunting out West. If done over a good dog or two, and you are shooting premium shells, you might be pleasantly surprised about just how effective those two chokes are in your Merkel.
Jim |
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Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:56 pm
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I've owned all three guns mentioned here: Citori 16, Merkel 16 gauge OU, Merkel 1620. I really liked all of them but only one stayed and it was the Merkel 1620. That little gun is magic for me and I shoot it better than the others, even on long shots. |
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Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:53 am
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Member
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 1522
Location: NH
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Dave,
I agree. My 1620 (actually it's a 47E bought in Germany, same gun I'm told) just comes up and handles so well. It makes it hard to miss. I have one other gun that fits and handles like that. A Winchester 101 Pidgeon in 20 ga. Great gun but it "ain't" a 16.
Jim,
Thanks for the encouragement. I love the gun choked this way. Here in NJ and Pa everything is put and take. So the birds aren't quite as hard to get as the wild birds out west. Choked Sk/Sk2 it works very well over my dogs.
Still wish I could have had the chokes put in. Would have given me the best of everything. Great handling gun with options. Oh well, maybe in my next Merkel. |
_________________ A bad day of hunting is better than a good day of work. |
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Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:26 am
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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 25
Location: Somerset County, NJ
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TJC,
Did you make it out for opening day on this past Saturday? What a beautiful day to walk and hunt. I was up at the Clinton WMA about 1:30 in the afternoon and got my limit pretty quickly. Even after the meat hunters swept through in the morning, there were plenty of birds around for those hunters with hard working dogs to find them. My setters put six birds to wing in a bit over two hours (#2 and #3 came home with me) and made me proud.
JCM
PS: just for the record, my birds fell to a 1922 16 gauge Elsie. There's nothing better than walking the fields with an old Smith in hand and Setters on point. |
_________________ I've never met an LC Smith that I didn't like. |
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Posted:
Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:39 pm
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Member
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 1522
Location: NH
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JC,
I was at both of my gun clubs on Sat and Sun. Took a total of 7 roosters and 5 hens.
My brother and I went out today up at Flatbrook. I took a rooster and a hen, he shot a hen.
We're going back up tomorrow to see if the dogs can get us a few more.
It wasn't bad Sat. Sun actually got to warm, especially for the dogs.
Mine all fell to my Merkel. Love that gun. Although I almost took my 12 ga. Fox for a walk today. I'll get it out soon. Hunting 4-5 days a week for the next month will give me plenty of time to switch guns a bit. |
_________________ A bad day of hunting is better than a good day of work. |
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Posted:
Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:01 pm
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Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 136
Location: ohio
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The German chokes are tight in fixed and in tubes. The Germans pride them selfs in in machining precision. The J.P. Sauers that I have had were f-m ,but miked Xtra-full and full. Great Turkey guns,but not game birdguns. They are made to tight tolerances all the way around. Be time it breaks in you be in the grave. |
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Posted:
Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:11 pm
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Member
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 1522
Location: NH
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Update on the Merkel with the opened up chokes, Skt 1 and Skt 2. It's doing just fine on pheasants this season.
I've switched to using the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant loads and they work really well.
Winchester SuperX #4's are good too but not quite the Fiocchis. |
_________________ A bad day of hunting is better than a good day of work. |
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Posted:
Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:17 am
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Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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It really tickles me to see people comparing the 16 ga. Citori to a Merkel. I've known for some time now how well biult and balanced the small frame Citori field models are. To see other people discovering that for themselves is a pleasure.
However, we are all built differently. Its a rare thing that two different makers guns fit us equally well. both the Citori and Merkel are very well built and nicely balanced guns, but they are mass produced, as are 95% of all good shotguns today.
If yours does not fit you after a reasonable familiarization period, have the stock refitted to personal needs. Shotguns, more than any other shooting instrument, are very personal items. It your gun does not fit you perfectly and hit precisely where you look, then all the built in quality and good handling characteristics will do you no good. Spend the added money to have the stock bent to suit and/or have the length of pull adjusted as needed. It will make all the difference in the world to you shooting--that, and proper, frequent practice. |
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