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Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2350 Location: West MI

[quote="Charles Hammack"]

This is what My finances would allow me to give us , so I chose a design that would do it all , not just one thing great .

Regards Charles

Thanks Charles! Just a thought.....Since there seems to be some pretty enthusiastic responses to your project........why not pre-sell some pre-production to build more working capital? Sports arenas, buisnesses, govt.'s etc. do it all the time to gather interest and inertia into an endevor. I can't speak for all...but I for one am impressed with your productivity and passion on/for this project. Since you have a captive audience ....us 16ga'ers......I think it would be worth the effort and the results may surprise you. Consider how much value the weight/inertia of this Pre-Sell would add (assuming PS success) when you bring it to the table at Remington. $ talks. This may sound corny..... but.... we would all be sitting there at the table with you. At the very least good luck, Mike

Hello Mike:

I thank you for the thought , I just dont do business that way , I dont want to do as others , take money for something that I dont even have to sell yet , Yes I know now days it is called BACKORDERS , but this is just not me , lets wait untill we have wads to ship .

But if folks would like to contact their represenitves and chime in for a count on what is to be run on the first run then I would not be against that in the least .

In fact now that I think about it , it would be nice to know how many cases to run on the first run .

This way we would have a time slot on the machines , so we would not have to wait for another time slot to open up later.

This way the first run would be able to get wads out to the folks waiting and not having folks wait for the second run to take place .

I for one want 5 cases sitting in my reloading room as soon as possible.

I want to go back to shooting some competition and promote the 16ga some more.

Regards Charles

Charles;

How about starting a staw poll on a new thread as to how many would like to purchase from the first production Run and quantity ?

And where would we place our orders, thru Down Range, You or Who ?

Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 38 Location: Ohio

Charles.

I would buy some wads also. Just let us know the details when they become available.
You are putting together a truely extraordinary effort in this wad development.

I do Thank You.

Hello Lefty Dude:

You will need to place orders with a Distributor that carries The Downrange Product Line .

These are the folks that will be Distributing the wads for Downrange .

You have come up with a very good idea and I thank you , I will do exactly that .

By the way I visited with Arnie the Mold Maker again today , ( I have been there or visited every day the past week ) we have the design finalized and know exactly what material we need , We ordered the material Today with a few items we are waiting on quotes will know and have all ordered by the end of the week .

The Mold Base and the majority of the Steel will be here by the end of next week ( if you can trust the salesman , the checks in the mail so to speak ) .

Arnie and I discussed a target date for the compleation of the Production Mold , He ask me and I gave him a fitting date I think ( THE 4 RTH OF JULY ) He said he would do his best to hit this date for me , thinking this was a realistic date for him to compleat it .

So here we have a target date to shoot for , actually I was thinking the middle of August , but just thought I would see if we could have it earlier.

So here goes on the new thread , projected target retail price will be still the $145 a case of 5000 I hope to come in within a couple of bucks of this price ????? Too bad I didnt have the extra funds to make a larger mold to get part price down real low , but this is the best I can get done with the available funds , the mold is a 16 cavity and it is becoming a reality .

Whew weee cant wait to get a progressive loader and load up the shells I can shoot in a day , " in an hour " sure will beat that single stage loader spending all day loading , so you could shoot the next day .

Regards Charles

I received a box in the mail from Kevin at Downrange ( just received it last night when I got home , it was shipped last week I think the pony express brought this package) it has some wads in deep green color I tried to post a pic on the host website and keep getting an error message, so you will not get to see it as of yet.

A good number of folks have ask me this question , How many wads do you have to sell to recover your invesment in the mold ???

Well hang on to your socks , it will take a bit over 1,500 cases , that is 7.5 Million Wads for the break even on the Mold project .

This let everyone else know what the cost verses the break even point is for this project .

I will try to get the color pic on when the host site will let me get the pic posted .

Regards Charles

Here is the color pic , now this is not the color that it will end up for the production color just a color to take to the shot show is all and for us to get a good pic of .

Regards Charles

We are working on the Loading Data as I type,

I am thinking of loads that fall under the following velocities, what do you folks think ??? give me some input , I will choose for the inital data 3 velocities only , This is what I was thinking for the 3.

1. ( 1220 FPS ) In cold weather this would give an honest 1200 fps

2. (1325 FPS ) """" """""" """ """" """ "" """ " "" "" "" 1300fps

3. ( Top Velocity obtainable and still break targets 1450 FPS +++++++)
PERHAPS 1600 FPS ????

Other data will be made available later on , perhaps by the time the wads will be out ??? but I am coming up with the 3 velocities for testing right now , the last one is not negotiable , this is my loads for me " I AM BEING A BIT SELFISH ABOUT THIS ONE , MY PHEASANT LOADS FOR FALL "

give me some feedback quick , this is taking place as we speak.

Regards Charles

1220 to 1250 works for me. if it takes more than that it's too tuff to eat anyway.

booneh

Member Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 123 Location: Oregon

Charles, I'd say one at 1150 in hot weather for the 3/4 oz. load since most people will be shooting them at targets.

Larry

Charles, The pheasant load would be great. I have read and seen pictures of your hunts at the Indian Res. I want to load that. Also I like to practice sporting clays for when I hunt pheasant. I think the 1220-1200 would be good for that.

PS That article was great Buz Fawcett!!!

I second the 1150 velocity. Looking for a pressure in the 7500 range would be great too. There are lots of us with vintage 16's and feel a little selfish too:D

Brian

Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 311

Leaving steel shot aside, I have always preferred loads at 1150-1250 FPS.

Guest

Hello Twice Barrel:

I really think that Green Dot will be the slowest powder we will need to go with but we shall see , I dont adhear to conventional wisdom of the past few decades .

I go back to the 30's for the oldtimers data , then I utilize the new type of componets for the Hyper Velocity that the oldtimes could not hope to acheave .

But your right , that is the plan 1/16 OZ increments and a vast varity of hulls and velocities , but this take A LOT OF TIME so we will concentrate on the mainstream loads for now with the short shells and low pressures to follow , I would think we will have these done as well by the time the wad will be ready for distribution for this is a few months down the road .

The plan is to have several load combinations with the data published here first , for all to see .

We are taking 3 powders from each MFG for now and working the data up for these , The fastest burn rate of each MFG is the powders I have selected . First and foremost is Bullseye , Red Dot , Green Dot , and the Rex Powders .

The following data will encompass all the other powder combinations at a later date .

I will also make some low velocity loads down at 1000 fps for target loads for the kids .

Keep up the good work and we will have a vast varity of combinations to work with in the future .

Long live the 16 GA.

Regards Charles

Guest

Well Charles sounds as if you have things pretty well thought out as far as powders and shot charge weights. What primers do you intend to use?

I'm interested to see when you will start running into pressure problems with the Bullseye and Red Dot.

I'm sure the guys in the 16 Gauge Reloaders Group will fill in any perceived blanks in the data. Those guys get pretty inventive sometimes.