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Here are a couple of pictures of the barrel flats. I'm pretty sure that it's french, but don't know much more than that. any help would be appreciated.

and another

Some other particulars:
LOP to front trigger is 15" over 1" Pachmayr Pad
DAC 1 7/8" DAH 2 7/8"
I'm told that it's a 16 gauge, but can't confirm by any of the markings and is why I'm looking for a little help.

Thanks, Dan

Belgium, perhaps.

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

The "17.0" on the barrels indicate 17mm bore which translates to .669 or nominal 16 ga.

Can't make out enough detail to tell much else.

Pete

Those were best pictures that I was able to take. The barrel flats say:

"Acier De Surete" over "Decarbure Au Creuset"

In front of that in a semi circle it says Choke Rectifi with EM below on the left barrel and FM on the right.

In front of the flats is Stetienne 17.0 with C.F under on both barrels.

A 65 under what looks to be a proof of a three pointed crown over the letters PT on both barrel flats.

I'll try to get better pictures again tonight.

Thanks guys.

I believe the gun is a paris made gun as indicated by the proof mark at the rear of the flats. it also bears the french 3 pointed crown. It is chambered for 16 ga 2.5" shells. "Acier De Surete" transulates to "Steel of Safety". I can not see the other lettering clearly enough for transulation.
Cheers, John

Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 88 Location: Nericia, Sweden

Hava look here and compare with your gun: http://www.hassel-online.net/Schutzenverein/waffen/Beschusszeichen/frankrei/frankrei.htm

The suggestions about France above seem to be correct according to that page.

Pete

So based off the page that Old Shatterhand provided (Thank you), this shot gun was proofed in St. Etienne, France.

With a "Simple Load" (based on the single proof character on the barrels)and/or proofed with a usual load of smoke-less powder (based on the single three pointed crown over the letters PT). Do these two markings mean the same thing?

I have also noticed another marking on the left barrel almost covered by soldering between the barrels. It is (2) capital M's with a star between them. Does anyone know if this has any significance?

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

The 65 is original chamber length, 2 1/2 inch, usual for French guns until the 1950s. Good chance it may have been lenghtened at some point. Proof with French smokeless powder T pretty much tells us the gun was built after 1900, as that was the year it became the standard powder for proof. This is a modern level of proof, and while the gun likely would eat big smokeless loads all day long, you would be doing yourself and the gun a favor by sticking to lighter loads, both payload, and pressure wise. As noted, the 17.0 is the bore dimension 9 inches from the breech in millimeters, and it is a 16 gauge.
A good gunsmith should look the gun over before use. It is a pretty safe bet it can be used as is, it is tough to hurt a French boxlock. It is not worth a ton of money, nor is it a rare, desirable collector. Hence, use and enjoy it.
Best,
Ted

Thanks everyone for your help with information on this shotgun. I guess that my next post will be who is a good gunsmith in SE Wisconsin to take this gun to. We'll see what a forum search provides first however.

Again, thanks to all.

Dan

Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 43 Location: Omaha

Try this web site, http://www.gournetusa.com/forum/ , They helped me out quite a bit. Go to the "other French Guns" section.

Kevin

Any post-WWII French made or French proofed shotgun is stout enough for modern smokeless loads of the right length. the French have never been noted for skimping on strength and safety when it comes to firearms.

If the gun has been rechambered for 70mm/2-3/4 inch loads, you would be wise to have a good barrel smith measure the thickness of the barrel walls at the head of the chamber and along the forcing cones just to be absolutely safe. However, I'd not be surprized to find the gun is fine.

The outside tapers thoughout this span should give a good indication of any possible problems. The pictures indicate these barrels are not abruptly tapered and appear to be like most of the less expensive mass produced guns of this era. Mass produced guns of this vintage generally have plenty of steel ahead of the chamber. The barrels of the typical mass produced guns of these years are designed for economy of labor and for speed and convenience of fabrication. The same basic barrels were commonly used for all the standard shell lengths up to 70MM.

By the time this gun was probably made, 70mm had become the standard 16 ga length. Why the French did not just make these mass produced shotguns all 70MM after WWII is a mystery. Then any shell 70MM or less would be fine. It probably has to do more with outdated traditional beliefs and market opinion more than any real practical reason. I doubt many 65MM chambers are cut today even in France. Even hard headed French traditional opinions must give way to reality sooner or later. Same here in the States.

Only custom made, light weight guns generally carry very lightly built tubes with more sharply defined tapers in which a lengthened chamber might pose a risk. Based on what I can see of the area ahead of the chambers in the pictures, this gun has what appear to be standard tapered barrels with plenty of outside diameter ahead of the chambers. a 1/4" more chamber length should not really pose a problem. Looks like you have a decent shooter. Enjoy it.

Joined: 17 Mar 2007 Posts: 203

Citori, you're in luck, of sorts. There is plenty of good gunsmithing knowledge right on your doorstep. I have sent many (not fine) guns to the Gander Mountain gunsmiths there in Kenosha. That store grew out of the original Gander Mountain in Wilmot, WI, and many of the gunsmiths there have been there for many years. I've sent them guns of mine to work on since 1995, for no other reason than that each time I get the gun back they've done good work. This time of year they are sometimes backed up as hunting seasons are right around the corner. It would be worth a drive over there with your shotgun to chat with them. The store is just north of Highway 50, east of I94. Good luck. 8mmFan

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

The other mark translates to decarburized crucible steel. Pretty un-noteworthy today, but, perhaps a bragging point in about 1920.
Best,
Ted