16ga.com ~ View topic - Effect of adding Simmons rib to plain barrel model 12?

Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 380 Location: Northeast Ohio

I have a plain barrel model 12 that suits me perfectly. If I was forced to keep just one gun, it would be the one. I've owned and shot several nice guns over the decades but something about this one just clicks for me. With it I get every target and bird I deserve. I want to get another as a back-up and just because I want one.

My question is this: How does an after market Simmons rib added to an originally plain barreled model 12 effect the point of impact and barrel regulation as opposed to when the gun left the factory in the plain version? I'm not at all opposed to rebluing (a neccessity for the barrel after the Simmons is added I'm told) or other non-original alterations since these versions are the most common and affordable, especially when ribs (solid or vent) are concerned.

I know each barrel is an entity onto itself and the pattern board is reccomended, but I'm wondering if there is a general trend in point of impact with the add-on ribs in case I happen upon a gun I like that happens to have one. I thought I heard once that they will make a plain barreled gun shoot high (or low?).

I'm aware that the location of the proof mark can tell you if the rib is original or was added after market. I'd prefer an original factory rib but those are much harder to find and I don't want to pass up a good gun just due to the Simmons add-on.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

Take a plain barrel and tape a small block (of the same height and width of the rib) to the barrel right by the bead. With the gun mounted you'll have the same silouette as the rib will give you. Take the gun and shoot some pattern sheets with the block and without it.

This will tell you where the POI is compared to your sight picture. Note that the difference in POI will change at different ranges.

Jeff

Member Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 258 Location: Nordern MN

Two thoughts:
It's not that hard to find a m12 with a rib! I personally would not add a rib to an otherwise original gun - for the money it will cost, you might as well buy an original with an original rib. Aftermarket alterations nullify any collectibility.

I guess I'm not sure if you are going to buy a m12 w/ a simmons rib or add one to your current gun, but I've learned from experience that if I have a gun that shoots good, altering it never turns out for the better.

Good luck,
NR

Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 380 Location: Northeast Ohio

Thanks for the helpful responses.

Mod 97, a point of clarity:

I'm not considering adding a rib to my model 12. I just want to buy an additional model 12. And if while shopping, I include those that have had after market Simmons ribs added on, I'll have many more specimens to choose from. It seems there are lots out there that have had ribs added. My only experience is with my all original plain barreled specimen, which I absolutely love. I don't neccessarily need a ribbed version, but if I find a specimen I like and it happens to have an aftermarket rib I'm just wondering if they still shoot where they are supposed to after the ribs have been added. I thought I heard once that adding a rib to plain barrels makes them shoot higher or lower.

In other words, I trust that Winchester made well regulated straight shooting plain barreled guns, but I'm just curious if anybody knows if there is a tendency for those same guns to have a change in point of impact once the Simmons ribs were added.

Sorry if i was unclear.

I've had Simmons ribs installed on numerous M12's over the years and owned a bunch more with Simmons ribs. They make a great pointing gun even better and there was no discernable change in POI! AND--they look real nice too!

Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 380 Location: Northeast Ohio

Thank you nid-28. That's exactly the information I was looking for and what I was hoping to hear. I will now not shy away from add-on ribs and now the pool of guns I'll have to pick from will be much larger. I figured they were ok, as there had been so many converted over so many years. I knew Winchester used Simmons at the factory too, and figured that plenty of good shooters shot quite proficiently with add-ons over the years. I was just looking for confirmation of that idea and any information that might be helpful.

Thanks again.

I'd be willing to bet that there are more M12's with Simmons aftermarket ribs then M12's with original ribs. In the late 60's and 70's I made up a bunch of trap guns from 30" full choke field guns and also a 1/2 dozen 28ga. guns on field grade 16's that I used to buy for $100-$150 each. During those years you could buy trap and skeet wood directly from Winchester for not a lot of $$$$$. They made up into beautiful guns that shot superbly. A couple of those 28's still see active duty and are resting in my safe. SO--go ahead and rib your 16ga. or find a nice clean one to buy. Good luck to you. BD

Here's a couple you could just try for a while and see if you like them..

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=106601799

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=106601977

Guest

Boy-am I in heaven- a forum where the "Perfect Repeater" is treasured- I had an older 16 (mfg. 1939) field with 28" mod. and the solid rib- which I prefer over a ventilated rib on my hunting Model 12's- I have a 1947 Pigeon Grade Trap with the so called "old milled rib"- very expensive as the posts were not soldered onto the barrel, but were milled from the barrel blank-in about 1954 Winchester hooked up with Simmons in Olathe KS and developed the "New Winchester Ventilated Rib" with Ernie and his boys-the posts were soldered onto the barrel and the rib slid into the dovetails. You are correct about the proof marks- on a original factory ribbed Model 12, they will be set differently than one later on with an "after market" rib. My suggestions: Borrow a ribbed field grade Model 12 from a friend and try it- you might also read Jon Barsness' most insightful comments on ribs vs. plain barrels in his book on Shotguns- John is a booster for the M12-but prefers the plain barreled ones for hunting-both versions work well for me, as I see the bird and not the muzzle or rib- Just me, but I shoot better scores on clays with that older Trap gun- because I removed the mid-rib small bead (and kept it)-supposed to verify alignment on a pre-mounted shotgun I have been told. I see quite a few 16 gauge Model 12's in my travels-I'll be glad to look over some for you- ribbed or otherwise-