Joined: 02 Jun 2004
I'm posting this info as an announcement to keep it handy. I had the easy job... all the heavy lifting was done by revdocdrew. Thanks, Drew.
British proof markings: The "tons" mark (which is service pressure) was not used until 1954. Between 1925-54, the chamber length was marked. 1904-1925 guns would not have the chamber length, but only the shot charge and a nitro proof.
There are three pressure measurement systems (lead crushers/LUP, copper crushers, and piezo), and two standard systems of measure units (USA/SAAMI and CIP/British/European) and two differing units (psi and tons and bar and Kg/Cm sq) within each system, different proof laws by country, and differing proof laws by age.
Unfortunately, there is essential NO formula to convert BAR expressed as LUP (CIP) to PSI (SAAMI). LUP + 1000 does not reliably predict the actual piezoelectric transducer measured pressure.
In 1989, all proof data was marked in metric using the BAR as the unit of measurement. The use of TONS per sq. inch was dropped. Under this system, 850 bar represented standard proof, with 1200 bar being special or magnum. 2 1/2" chambered guns are usually proofed 850 bar
2 3/4" chambered may be proofed 900 bar (3 1/4 tons per sq. inch) or higher.
**650 bars is standard CIP (British and European) service pressure for shells designed for guns proofed at the CIP standard of 850 bars**
European (CIP) proof pressure of 850 kg per sq. cm. (BAR) = 13,920 psi proof pressure= 10,730 psi service pressure (SAAMI)
Per the 1954 Rules of Proof, here are the equivalent service pressure values:
3 tons--8,938 psi
3 1/4 tons--9,682 psi
3 1/2 tons--10,427 psi
4 tons--11,917 psi
These numbers SHOULD apply to guns proved under the 1925 rules, which were stamped only with chamber length and shot charge. Thus, a 2 1/2" chambered gun, 1925 rules of proof, would be equivalent to 3 tons; a 2 3/4" chambered gun to 3 1/4 tons.
A service pressure of 3 tons per sq. in. = 8,938 psi service pressure (SAAMI)
For comparison, here's data from actual pressure testing:
3 Dr.Eq. 1 1/8 oz. Winchester Trap Load1,202 fps 9,600 psi
Winchester AA Xtra-Lite 1 oz WAAL12
1189 fps 8000 psi
Standard 1900s loads per LC Smith Hang Tags:
12g 3 dram 1 1/4 oz 1165 fps
16g 2 1/2 dram 1 oz 1165 fps
20g 2 1/4 dram 7/8 oz 1155 fps
The 12g 2 5/8" 1 1/8 oz. 3 1/4 Dram Eq (1295 fps) load of the 1920s ran about 10,500 psi.
The Super-X 2 3/4 inch 3 3/4 dram equiv. 1 1/4 ounce load (1330 fps) was near the SAAMI max. of 11,500 psi.
Baschieri & Pellagri data BUT you must add 500-1000 psi to the reported pressure to get an approximation of the SAAMI equivalent PSI. The 16g F2 Classic is factory listed at 9,867 psi but testing by Tom Armbrust showed it to be 10,500.
Gamebore Traditional Game 16g 28gm (1 oz.) is reported to run 1260 fps at 8122 psi but pressure testing by Tom Armbrust showed it to be 8400 psi. The box is labeled "These cartridges are suitable for use in:
70mm case length: Guns with a chamber length of 2 3/4" or longer, nitro proofed to a service pressure of 3 1/4 tons per square inch (900 kg per square cm)
67 mm case length: Guns with a chamber length of 2 1/2" or longer, nitro proofed to a service pressure of 3 tons per square inch (850 kg per square cm.)"
It's appropriate to view the 3 ton/650 bar/8,939 psi pressure as the maximum service/using pressure rather than the standard/recomended service pressure. The Gamebore loads run below 8500 psi but are 'approved' for use in 3 ton/650 bar service/850 bar proof guns. In light of the age of the wood and metal of classic American and British SxSs, shoot low pressure to save the action, shoot light shot charge/low velocity to spare the wood. It seems reasonable to limit pressure to 8,500 psi, and several commercial loads are available from 5,000- 7,000 psi http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...ge=11#Post31805
BOTTOM LINE: ANY 850 BAR (proof) = 650 BAR service or 3 TON service gun should be fine at pressures under 8500 psi, or 3 1/4 tons less than 9,500 psi.
ANSI/SAAMI Shotgun Pressure Specifications (Maximum Average Pressure in PSI)
All Piezo measurements unless specified)
To follow up on Drew's fine post from months earlier, here is a shot weight conversion table going from grams to ounces. I found this data on a British cartidge web site.
19.5 ..... 11/16
21..... 3/4 (for you 28ga fans)
24/25...... 7/8 (for the 20ga field load fans)
26..... 15/16 (some 16ga loaders may take note)
28..... 1 (one of the most popular all around loads)
30..... 1 1/16 (one of the popular driven bird loads in the UK)
32..... 1 1/8 (for the 12ga fans)
34..... 1 3/16
36..... 1 1/4 (for the 12ga semi-auto fans)
42..... 1 1/2
50..... 1 3/4
Hope this helps in some mild way to readers of this site.
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Location: Glendale, AZ
When a British shell box is labeled:
These cartridges are suitable for use in:
70mm case length: Guns with a chamber length of 2 3/4” or longer, nitro proofed
to a service pressure of 3 1/4 tons per square inch (900 kg per square cm)
67 mm case length: Guns with a chamber length of 2 1/2” or longer, nitro proofed
to a service pressure of 3 tons per square inch (850 kg per square cm.)
The CIP transducer "Maximal Statistical Individual Pressure" of 850 BAR = 12,328 PSI for a "Maximal Average (Service) Pressure" of 740 BAR = 10,733 PSI
900 BAR is for a "Maximal Average (Service) Pressure of 780 BAR = 11,313 PSI
Vic Venters, Shooting Sportsman, March-April 2012, “CIP Proof”
“Although the Maximum Mean Pressures for service loads for standard proof (850 BAR) guns are 740 BAR, CIP regulated cartridge manufacturers typically work to lower pressures...between 450 (6,527 psi) and 650 bars (9,427 psi) as measured by CIP piezo transducers.”
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