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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  20 gauge wad confusion
16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:38 am  Reply with quote
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FT, I mentioned the Federal 20S1 as a very good choice. It has the greatest diameter of all the 20 ga wads. In fact, it is only about .015" smaller than the Remington 16 ga wads. It has a well designed shot cup, that will serve for up to 1 oz of shot. It has a very deeply cupped base section that spreads out and holds the powder from migrating if sufficiently extra wad seating pressure is used. The wad is also fairly stiff, so it's gas cup obturates very well and very quickly when used in the Remington 16 gauge hull. I got zero gas blowby and very good patterns with 7/8 oz of shot. I don't know if Claybuster makes a 20S1 knockoff like they do for the Federal 12 gauge wads. If they do, then those will be cheaper.

I'd also check out the Pattern Control 20 ga wad. These wads usually have a small ring or ridge around the gas check portion that helps stop powder migration in 20 ga hulls. It will not serve that purpose in a 16 ga Remington hull, but may help the wad set back faster so it obturates faster and better. as mentioned, heavier wad seating pressure will spread the lips of the base over the powder enough to stop most flake powders from migrating past the 20 gauge wads.
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SageRat
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:59 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
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16 Gauge Guy

You need to get your hands on some 20 Ga. Gualandi wads and you will find your remark about the federal being the largest of the 20 ga. wads, is incorrect. The Gualandi 20's are almost the same size as a 16 ga. wad, in diameter.

The Federal 20 ga. wads I have are no larger in diameter than the Claybuster or AA wads. So, we must have different lots of wads as the disparity is quite huge.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:07 am  Reply with quote
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SR, trust me when I tell you that I do my homework before starting any project. If you doubt it, call Federal or Email them about the diameter of the 20S1 wad. All the specifics are in some of my back posts under Ammo and Reloading. Check them out if you wish.

A few monthes back, some of us covered this business of the Federal 20SI wad and its present diameter. I was looking at this wad because of its inherent design advantages over the 20 ga. Gualaundi wad for my purposes. Federal has definately made the new batches with a bigger diameter than those of a few years back. It is well over .010" bigger than the older ones. This has been done to ensure a seal in the new overebore 20 ga. barrels being made now.

The 4 bags of wads I bought in October at Kittery Trading Post were all brand new, recently made wads. I contacted Federal a week before buying them to get an idea what diameter they were supposed to be. The wads averaged right at where the company rep said they'd be. The new ones are nominally .620 in diameter, about the fattest 20 ga wad available. However, they vary in diameter over a range of nearly .010" wad to wad. (plus or minus .005")

I think you will find the new 20S1 to be the closest 20 gauge wad available to the R16 Remington wad in diameter, length, base wad/gas seal shape, and shot cup depth. That is why I picked them to try as a workable substitute over the Gualandi Wad. The Gualandi wad is nominally .605" diameter according to Ballistic Products. Its shot cup barely holds 1/2 oz. of shot. Its base wad gas cup is too shallow and thin lipped to reliably plug a 16 ga bore of .660-.670. There will be blow by and there will be bore scrub to the shot column if the Gualandi is used in a 16 ga load. Patterns and ballistics will be degraded much more than I wish to accept. The 20S1 worked much better for me.

However, shortly after trying the 20S1, Recob and Remington came through with the R16 wads we were trying to buy. Now I do not need to use substitutes. I purchased 15,000 R16 wads, enough to keep me supplied for some time to come. I gave the rest of the 20S1 wads to a buddy that reloads the Federal/Estate 20 ga. hull.

I have offered the results of my research and loading experience with the 20S1 simply to aid those folks who haven't been able to get any R16 wads yet. However, Recob is putting a new order together. I'd strongly recommend that those folks who reload the Remington hull put an order in for 5000 ASAP. There really is nothing better than the real thing. However, the Federal wad will work very well in the mean time as a substitute. 16GG.
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CitoriFeather16
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:19 am  Reply with quote
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I'm in for the new order of R16's! Do I contact Recob's direct?

Matt
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:33 am  Reply with quote
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CF16, if you've already placed your order with Recob's, then just sit back and wait. Chris will get it done in time. He needs to accumulate enough orders to fill a 200,000 count minimum order. It may take several months or more. However, he will get it done. If you have not, then call them or email them about it. He'll answer any questions you have. They always have an ad in "Shotgun Sports" and "Trap and Field" magazines. You can also check out my old posts about the first R16 wads from back in the Spring. Chris's email address at Recob's is there. hope this helps, 16GG.

PS, here is the email address from my old post: kris@recobstargetshop.com. Place your orders through there. This will enable Chris to personally track all orders and keep an accurate total. This is because he is keeping a special file for R-16 orders.
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SageRat
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:39 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
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Thought you might like to kinow, the Gualandi 20 ga. wads measure .620. That is from the batch that I have in my posession.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:02 am  Reply with quote
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Yes, I'd believe that. Wad diameters vary considerably from batch to batch. However, .605 is the nominal size for these 20 ga. Gualaundi wads. The next batch you buy may very well be .600 or even smaller.

Also, you can't get around the small shot cup nor the overly stiff, shallow gas cup on the base of the Gualaundi wad. Sooner or later, both these characteristics will give you grief in a 16 ga hull. BP advised me not to use them for 16 ga reloading. I did not listen and the loads I tried were not that good. I had blowby and poor shot patterns. They were right. They also suggested I use the Remington wads for the Remington hull. However, as I said, if you like the 20 gauge Gualaundi wads, use them. good luck, 16GG.
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Dave Erickson
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:42 pm  Reply with quote
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I've been loading the Gualandi 20 gauge wads in the black Remington hulls for over 2 years with excellent results. Great patterns, consistent velocities, and not one blooper. Not one. I knoe several other 16 gauge shooters that have had the same experience with these wads in the Remington hull.

Sure beats using fillers to get a good crimp.

And at $89.00/5000 the price is unbeatable.

Glad I didn't bite on the R16's.
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jchandler
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:13 pm  Reply with quote
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And in fact, I recall that Dave was the one who sent the loads for testing. I also haven't had any problems with that wad in the Rem hull. Jeff
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Dave Erickson
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:41 pm  Reply with quote
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jchandler wrote:
And in fact, I recall that Dave was the one who sent the loads for testing. I also haven't had any problems with that wad in the Rem hull. Jeff


Good memory, Jeff! Smile
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:21 am  Reply with quote
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I guess nobody likes to see their brainchild bashed. Its like telling your neighbor his kid is funny looking. Wink This line of posts has reminded me of the bumper sticker that says "My kid can beat your honor student of the month up."

But seriously, if the 20 ga. Gualaundi wad works for you, then use them. you are lucky to have found something that does. i hope they continue to do so. it would be nice if trhey also remain at a reasonable cost. but I doubt that will continue. Petroleum based products are skyrocketing including virgin polyethylene.

They did not work so well for me, which is why I then went to the Federal wad. It works better for me and the larger shot cup is a bit more versitile and efficient, even though it is more expensive.

However, the R16 has proven to be best of all. It is very versitile. It helps my loads pattern very effectively over a wider range of distances with a wide range of shot loads from 5/8 to 1-1/8 oz, and works in all 16 ga hulls. It works extremely well with the 16 ga Polywad insert for 7/8 oz or lighter spreader loads. it will reliably plug any 16 ga bore from tight to overbore. in short, it has the advantages and capabilities I want and is worht the extra money IMO. I use what works for me. I'd expect you to do the same, even if your brainchild is a bit funny looking to me Wink .
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Dave Erickson
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:33 pm  Reply with quote
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I like the Gualandi 20 gauge wads in the black Remington hull because the deliver excellent patterns and they require no filler to get a good crimp. I detest adding fillers to my loads. With the Gualandi 20 gauge wad in the Rem hulls I can have my cake and eat it too!

I'm still working on my first 5000 wads that I bought from Graf's at $67.99/5000 I see they did go up to $89.99/5000 recently. That's too bad, but still a bargain though.

I don't need a wad for loading 5/8 to 1 1/8 oz loads. At the present time I only need to reload one load in the 16 gauge. That is a 7/8 oz load @ 1150 fps and I crank them out by the hundreds at a time on my progressive MEC. I shoot factory Federal, B&P, and Kent at game birds.

It's not a competition 16GG. You seem to think it is, but it's not. You always subtly put other peoples ideas down (loads, guns, etc), but then try to turn the discussion around so you're either the victim, or the champion of "everyman." You seem to fit the definition of a "sociopath," and a garden variety BS artist. Kind of strange to have one's ego wrapped up in an internet persona to the extent you do.

I guess my tolerance for internet experts and flakes is at an all time low, and I've learned it's healthier to vent when venting is appropriate.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:12 am  Reply with quote
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Sorry you've been offended Dave. I don't see it as competition, but an open discussion of ideas, a sharing of the reasoning behind the choices we make, and the results we've gotten. As far as wounded egos, it sounds like you are the one nursing yours. The only issue I take very seriously is the safety one on this site. All the rest is just for amusement and info. The Gualandi 20 ga wad based loads I tried were not dangerous, just unsatisfactory. So it is not that big a deal.

I reported my results from using 20 ga. Gualaundi wads. They didn't agree with your findings. But that is what I got. How does that become BS? The bag I bought ran quite a bit smaller than .620" in diameter. Perhaps the ones you bought ran bigger and worked better for you. That is not BS either, just luck of the draw. However, if I have to misreport my results to keep from pissing somebody off, that is BS.

A sociopath has no real social conscience and does not really care if someone gets hurt or even killed as long as his desires or ends are served. A sociopath never thinks about the collective good or sharing. I don't fit into that catagory. I don't think you do either. But I also don't think you'd gain enough knowledge or insight from a chat site to be able to correctly identify one either. I know I certainly can't. Professionals have a hard enough time doing it.

I sensed a bit of hostility building up from your posts and tried to defuse it with some light humor. I was trying to keep the line from becoming too serious. The topic itself is not an earthshaking one. Sorry if the attempted humor offended you. Perhaps we should just simply agree to disagree and let it slide, rather than resorting to insults or misinformed labelling. Ignore my posts. That's the simplest solution. If you wish to vent, why not vent about something that really matters where it might do some good. 16GG
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