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<  16ga. General Discussion  ~  Why the unreliable sources for vintage loads?
Brad6260
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:37 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 252
Location: Louisville,KY

Hoashooter this ought to be right up your alley!

My question is where is the breakdown in the supply chain for 16ga. low pressure vintage laods and for that matter the specialty loads in general? In my case I realize that 2.5" vintage loads are a true specialty load but given the popularity of all of these loads I would think someone would step up and fill the demand and make a nice profit doing so.

I look at RST, Armusa, etc and they all seem to suffer ongoing backorder issues and all of my local retailers are pulling their hair out trying to find any volume sources for these loads.

So back to my question.
Is it lack of profit ?
Raw material availability ?
Production capabilities ?
Poor planning ?
Or has no one jumped in on a scale to fill the market needs ?

And just saying all of the above doesn't count.
This is the United States Of America. Home of the Brave..... and Visa and Mastercard! Capitalism at it finest.

Maybe I can get rich maker a super low pressure load (3300psi) and call it the Chaney safety load ?

Thanks for any thoughts or opinions and hopefully I'll meet a few of you in Louisville this weekend.

Brad
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Bronco
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:05 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 158
Location: NW Florida

Brad, I had the same problem but the solution was easy. I shoot Fiocchi 2.75in factory stuff in my M12, or at least my son does. I cut the hulls down to 2.5 in using a piece of 5/8in copper tubing, cut to the correct length, with an exacto knife. I purchased an adaptor from MEC to convert one of my 16ga 600's to load 2.5 in shells. The rest is the same as loading the long hulls. If you don't want to go to the trouble of cutting hulls, Graf & Sons has Cheddite 2.5in primed hulls. Just skive them and load. The skivving is actually quicker than cutting. Gulandi wads, 7/8oz shot and Green Dot make for a nice 7K psi load. Join the low pressure reloading forum for the details. Easy and the cutting or skivving, you only have to do once. Bob
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:37 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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Location: massachusetts

Brad6260 wrote:
Hoashooter this ought to be right up your alley!

My question is where is the breakdown in the supply chain for 16ga. low pressure vintage laods and for that matter the specialty loads in general? In my case I realize that 2.5" vintage loads...
This is the United States Of America. Home of the Brave..... and Visa and Mastercard! Capitalism at it finest.


Brad


Unfortunately, this is America, home of men made into mindless munchkins by the megamedia, mass production and big box marketing aka the 3 M's. How many 16ga 2-1/2" loads could Wallyworld and the K box sell? Maybe a case or two per state per decade. Well geez, you see our problem then. No profit. In that case, screw you and your 16 ga 2-1/2" chambered antique.

Now, could we interest you in a nice stamped steel and plastic 3-1/2" 12ga. mega magnum guaranteed to fell anything on the planet and possibly anything on this side of the galaxy? And we have them in the latest camoflage color scheme on clearance right now for only 567.67 down from 799.97. Now, how many boxes of #2 steel shot loads can we sell you with the gun? And what card will you be using today? Now, if you would kindly start filling out this federal form we can get started and.... Rolling Eyes Wink

Sorry bucko, but you're gonna hafta roll your own like the rest of us orphans. Sad 16GG
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Brad6260
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:39 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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Location: Louisville,KY

16GG,

I'm not suggesting a specialty load on every corner here and I don't have a clue what the cost's are to make a commercial production run of these type loads are but the flip side is were not talking about a $3.99 Wally World 12ga. dove load either.

When I talk to several gun shop owners in one small city saying they would go through 20+ cases per month with demand increasing and guy's glad to pay $9.00-10.00per box I find it hard to believe that there is not a growing SPECIALTY niche that marketed to SPECIALTY retailers that could produce Specialty product type profit margins if done well.

A proud "Chambered Antique" owners opinion!
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KyBrad16ga
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:31 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 295
Location: Jackson, Mississippi

Brad6260 wrote:

Maybe I can get rich maker a super low pressure load (3300psi) and call it the Chaney safety load ?

Thanks for any thoughts or opinions and hopefully I'll meet a few of you in Louisville this weekend.


You may have found your NEXT business venture Brad. You could set up importing a high quality shell from England and market in DGJ and SS...LOL

Seriously though, it sounds like if you really want that 2 1/2 for your new Westley and some of your other fine antique English and American guns, you are going to have to break down and join the reloading crowd. I have been reloading my own since HS. Its not THAT hard...
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:27 am  Reply with quote
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Location: massachusetts

Brad, I can certainly understand your frustration. However, you might have located a hotbed of local activity. The demand is just not there nationally.

I've become very aware in the last year from being a frequent flyer on this site, that 16 ga popularity is a very regional thing. The Midwest and surrounding areas where pheasant and bigger upland species are fairly common is the center of 16 ga popularity. Yes, we have contributers from across the nation, but most of us are probably centered around this area.

If Massachusetts did not have such a fine local stocking program, I'd probably be very happy with my 28 ga guns and would not have even looked at a 16. My small circle of close hunting buddies and I, a very small handful, are the only 16 ga fans out of a whole bunch of 12 and 20 fans and hunters.

I can tell you for sure that the 16 does not sell well in New England as several of the more daring dealers have found out the hard way. I've got one really PO'ed at me because I personally advocated the gauge and he went a bit overboard in stocking some. I'm a bit more cautious now what I say on the matter.

I've offered to help him get rid of them by stumping for him here if he's willing to drop his overly optimistic prices a bit. I'm sure some of you guys would appreciate a decent price on a new Citori. He's been very hard headed so he's stuck until he comes around to reality.

The down side of this site is that we are all advocates and the 16 is important to us so we feel a sense of unity. This tends to give us the sense there are more of us than might be realistic. We really are a small minority. Because we are united to some extent, we have a certain amount of clout. but maybe we are getting a skewed perspective.

However, if you have located a center of activity and no one else wants the job, why not take it on yourself and make some money if you can.
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Brad6260
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:51 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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Location: Louisville,KY

16GG,
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that I may have a non-typical view of the overall market but I would be curious to hear from some of the distributors as to just how much product they are going through on a nationwide basis.
I suspect one of us would be surprised one way or the other.

As for your's and KYBrad16's suggestions.
My wife will be so pleased to know that I manged to find a new hobby and another business venture all in one day.

Regards,
Brad
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:31 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: massachusetts

You might be right. I did not consider the Vintagers. A lot of these guys love the 16. Do you know if you have a local chapter in your area? This might explain quite a bit. Kentuckians are very much into heritage related pastimes if memory serves me right. I lived in the Blueridge and travelled through the gap frequently, and worked around Richmond for a short time too. Nice state there. Nice people too.
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