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Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

I am offering the following for everyone to look at. I was testing these 3 loads for myself, but they are a perfect example of what happens as the payload weight gets lighter.

Each load was chronographed with 5 rounds and pattern tested with 3 rounds each on its own signature sheet.

Date - September 19, 2009
Temp - 65 degrees F - No wind
Gun - Rem 1100 16 Gauge 28" Barrel, Ported, 1.5" forcing cone
Choke - .015 (actual constriction in relation to bore) Briley Thin Wall
Distance - 30 yards Measured

Loads as Follows:

Load #1

16 Gauge Remington 2 piece SP plastic (RGL)
Winchester 209 Primer
22.0 Grs. SR 7625
B&P 16 wad (Precsion Reloading #TUWZ2M16GA)
1 oz #6 Lawrence Magnum Lead Shot (.110 actual average of 20 pellets)
1292 FPS Published 1,276 Chronographed 11,200 PSI

Loads 2 & 3 are NOT published loads. Loads 1 & 4 are published loads.

Load #2

16 Gauge Cheddite Green hull 8mm brass
Winchester 209 Primer
23.0 Grs. Hodgdon Universal
DR 16 wad
7/8 oz. #6 lead as above
1414 FPS Chronographed

Load #3

16 Gauge Cheddite Green hull 8mm brass
Federal 209A Primer
18.5 Grs. American Select
DR16 wad
3/4oz. #6 lead as above
1395 FPS Chronographed

Load #4

16 Gauge Federal hull w/ Paper basewad
CCI 209 Primer
23.0 grs. 800-X
Remington SP16 Wad
1 1/8 oz. #6 lead as above
1277 FPS 9,800 PSI

Averages of 3 patterns for Load #1

Core - 145
Annular - 55
Total - 200
93% 2.6 to 1 C to A Ratio
Total Pellet count in Load 215 actual count

Averages of 3 patterns for Load #2

Core - 139
Annular - 41
Total - 180
96% 3.4 to 1 C to A Ratio
Total Pellet count in Load 187 actual count

Averages of 3 patterns for Load #3

Core - 120
Annular - 36
Total - 156
97% 3.3 to 1 C to A Ratio
Total Pellet count in Load 160 actual count

Averages of 3 patterns for Load #4

Core - 118
Annular - 75
Total - 193
80% 1.6 to 1 C to A Ratio
Total Pellet count in Load 243 actual count

Please, I am offering these as a representation of what commonly happens as you use lighter payload weights. They are what they are, I have not seen these loads on pattern paper until yesterday. I added my 1 1/8 oz. load that I always hunt roosters. I did pattern a few more loads and I did include them so we can all see loads from 3/4oz to 1 1/8 oz. All #6 shot.

My gut reaction to these loads is, they need the following, a .005 choke and #7 or #7 1/2 shot. With the exception of the load #4, that one is perfect with .015 and #6's.

Thanks guys I hope these help.

Thanks for posting pictures Mark.

Slidehammer

So Mark the lighter loads have a higher percentage of the payload on target but still less than the heavier load. So both schools of thought win heavier load more shot on target lighter loads higher percentage on target. Nice test Mark thanks!

Even the 3/4 oz. load has pretty good decent pattern density though. Certainly usable out to 39 yds., and probably faster than the others too.

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Hi Slide,

Definitely a LOT tighter than I expected, to the point of ridiculous. But at least I know where to go from here.

Load #1 I tried last year for pheasant. I hadn't patterned it, just tried it for kicks. Not good. I did kill birds with it, but as you can see with #6's and .015 choke the core is patchy. It wasn't impressive at all, not even on our barnyard birds.

Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Posts: 91

From my point of view, the patterns are all very appropriate for killing birds of chukar and pheasants size. No matter what you use, the loads will kill better than what the pattern shows.

Take most of the older 20 ga. guns, using Mod and under constrictions, the patterns don't especially look good, but they kill in spite of the looks on paper.

In my opinion, plus that of Charles and Sam, is that the effective part of the pattern is the core. The outside of the pattern is very good at crippling.

The one other factors that enters the picture when choosing a load, is experience and confidence. When you enter the two factors into the equation, and are a decent shot, you will likely have more success. How we think in the field, makes a considerable difference in results.

I have had a hand in converting several trap and sporting clays shooters to shooting 7/8 oz loads. My suggestion to them always, is shoot a flat of them to gain confidence. To the man, they now shoot 7/8 oz on both disciplines.

By the way rerun, I have used the .015 chokes in my 16's, both a model 12 and model 21. Makes decisive kills to 40 yards with 1 1/8 of 5's and further.

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Mike,

I am not after anything. These are just 3 loads that I wanted to pattern.

They just happen to show that with lighter loads, the core count of the pattern doesn't change a whole lot. Which is the reason that going to lighter loads doesn't mean less targets or gamebirds, as the effective or "working" (20" or so core)part of the pattern doesn't really lose much. The average core count of the of the 3/4 oz. load was only 25 pellets less then the 1 oz.. The difference in total pellet count between the loads was 55. Between the 7/8 and 1 oz load the average core count was only 6 pellets less. I do believe however that you are getting close to the edge with these 3/4oz. loads, to a point of diminishing returns.

If you look at the velocities you will also note that higher velocities didn't ruin the patterns.

Sage, I agree with you, on all points. The biggest issue that I had going to lighter loads, believe it or not was the absence of recoil. Until I got used to it, the absence of recoil threw my timing off for the second shot on true doubles. All of a sudden I had "all day" to find the second target, I wasn't used to that.

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

Let me add my thanks as well Mark...and my pleasant surprise. I 'thought' the lighter loads were generally about as useful as heavier payloads at modest ranges and your sheets appear to confirm my (and others) speculations.

Mark - I kinda agree with your statement at the end of your picture/ post . I hate doing patterning and seeing holes- I think that 7 oclock on the 1st pattern and a couple holes on the 3rd might let a claybird thru . I know birds don't fly straight and neither do pellets , but at that instant in time on that particular shot might get thru even though in the core . I realize 6's aren't target loads but maybe a grouse butt does too . The #2 pattern seems to be a little more evened out - like that one better - would still like 71/2's . The part I started to say about hating patterning is when the big holes are there consistently and need to be fixed .

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Deer Hunter,

I can't use the 3/4oz. load as it just won't cycle my 1100 reliably. So that one I will pretty much stop fooling around with.

The 7/8 oz and 1 oz. loads, I will try with #7's and #7 1/2's and repattern, and take some choke out. I will try .005 & .010 and just see what happens.

mark - the funny thing is in my 12 ga 1100 , i've been using 3/4 oz loads for quite a while . I started using them in a 101 win that kicked like hell and recently in the 1100 to avoid a recoil/ eye thing that developed and I can't afford to repeat . The 1100 does have the ports opened some and it is primarily a skeet /trap gun and do not use any hunting loads . For what seems to be your application , I would be satisfied I think with 7/8 , but what you may want to try is 7625 even though it seems unlikely . That was my 1st try in my 12's and it just seems like it was made for 1100's - especially the 3/4 ozs - may work your 16 . ps - i've been using int clays of late and that has worked good too . bill

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

deerhunter,

I have tried other powders for the 3/4 oz. None of them cycle the action on this shotgun, very well. Not really all that important.

The 3/4 oz load will be fine in the pumpguns I have.

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Slide,

My barrel is modified the way it is for patterning reasons first and muzzle jump/ recoil second.

The thought of opening up gas ports in my gun, was NEVER considered.

One gun, no switching barrels, K.I.S.S., I am nowhere near good enough to juggle muiltiple guns, barrel lengths etc Laughing

I am also not really interested in using 3/4 oz. loads to hunt with. This gun has virtually no recoil(for me) with 1 1/8 oz. loads, even at the pattern board.

This gun is built for me and the way I hunt and shoot, it has been an interesting process, from deburring and making the gun function perfectly, to fitting, recoil pads, trigger work, choke tubes, rib/sights, porting, forcing cones, there isn't much that hasn't been touched. I could have bought 3 new 1100's for the money I have in this gun, but it is definitely my gun. I have had several 1100's and I liked everyone of them, but this 16 Gauge is my absolute favorite shotgun.