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mike campbell
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:13 pm  Reply with quote
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Rolling Eyes


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rerundogchaser37
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:22 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 960

WOW,

You did have time on your hands!!!.

Nice job.

Although I would be happier measuring flat pellets than counting pellet holes. Laughing

That Kent Diamond stuff is supposed to be the cats butt.

The other thing that might be interesting is if the hardest stuff patterns the tightest.

I might be willing to do the patterning. I don't think I would need every shot type, just a representation of each basic hardness grouping.

Any interest in finding out?

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Irish Jack
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:39 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 107

NICE JOB, GIVE YOUSELF A GOLD STAR....THIS IS WHAT I HOPE FOR WHEN I TUNE IN.

GREAT EFFORT, AND I HOPE FOR SOME FREE TIME FOR MY SELF TO TRY A FEW THINGS,

BRUCE
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rerundogchaser37
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:39 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 960

Mike,

Just an observation.

Your findings seem to fit in with some of the 12 gauge target loads I have worked with awhile back. I could get tighter patterns with my reloads (nothing one-off) than I could with any factory target loads. I used Lawrence shot (still do).

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mike campbell
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:39 pm  Reply with quote
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Rolling Eyes


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rerundogchaser37
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:55 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 06 Aug 2009
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Mike,

I guess that means I have to actually buy NEW AMMO??? Except for some Kent Fasteel, I haven't bought new lead ammo in about 12 years (all Federal Target loads when I did). I have never bought lead hunting loads. This is going to ruin my image, as I am a die hard reloader.

Anyway, what about including some Winchester SuperSport for middle of the road stuff? What yardage, what choke? I will use a 16 Gauge 7/8 oz. and 1 1/8oz. load.

The hunting season starts this weekend for me so it might be a bit but I will try this.

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mike campbell
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:20 pm  Reply with quote
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Rolling Eyes


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muzz
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:00 am  Reply with quote
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Location: N.E.Lincolnshire UK

Mike,
If its any help,here in the UK the standard method of assessing shot hardness is to drop a 1/2 lb. rod from a height of 3 inches onto the pellet.
The extent of crushing is expressed as a percentage of the original diameter. tests of the average run of No 6 shot show a crush figure of 35-40%
Regards
muzz
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pudelpointer
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:22 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Lancaster county, Pa

Nice test Mike I always heard that West Coast Magnum was the hardest shot.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:37 am  Reply with quote
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Nice job Mike. One of your findings complies with one of my observances from my own trap reloads. There is little to no real practical difference in hardness between Lawrence Magnum and extra hard Chilean shot. I did not do any hardness testing other than to screen each type for a quantity of uniformly sized shot, and roll some of each type between two heavy steel plates to check for distortion. There was no real difference to be seen. Both types flattened just about the same amount. Chilled shot flattened noticably more.

I checked the roundness and size consistancy of both types of shot as well. My tests showed the Chilean shot was slightly more uniform in both respects. It also tended to throw more consistant shot charges. My patterning tests also showed the results to be slightly in favor of the Chilean shot. Both types patterned well enough to break any prperly centered target though. So any difference was probably of no real significance resultswise.

Dispite my findings, most trap shooters I asked thought the Chilean shot was inferior to the Lawrence brand and did not perform as well. Some of these folks swore up and down they could not shoot nearly as well with Chilean shot. This tends to support two of my own beliefs. Most folks are prejudiced by commonly held but unsubstantiated beliefs based on immaterial factors like price, and wing shooting is more mental than anything else once the basics are mastered.

PS, I broke my first 100 straight singles event using 24 gram loads of #8 Nasca extra hard shot. I also kept my load design to myself at the time to avoid all the BS and bickering such a disclosure would have generated. I still had some shooting left to do and wanted to keep myself mentally focused on the job at hand.
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mike campbell
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:56 pm  Reply with quote
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Rolling Eyes


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Kiwi_Bloke
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:09 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 31

Some years back American Rifleman, (the NRA members magazine), published the details of a shot hardness tester used in England. It involved sending a relatively heavy weight a relatively short distance, (inches). I built one that used the same weight and travel and proceeded to measure various shot makes of the same size, then the next size and so on. With the arrival of steel shot, it's been a bit neglected lately.

I usually measure 5 pellets before and after being whacked. It's easy enough to see the dent. Once you start getting this interested in shot, you notice other things too like how uniform the shot is, etc.
was
I had an old mate who used to say that copper plated shot was often softer beneath than ordinary shot. However, the copper was know as Lub-a-loy and the idea was to make it more slippery, not harder. Slippery pellets get through the choke better and so pattern better. I could certainly pick out better performanse on the pattern board due to copper coating. However, nickel coated pellets were harder and patterned even tighter. The trick was to get these things in the right shot sizes, especially BB and so on.

I found the shot tester as useful tool to explain pattern board results.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:21 am  Reply with quote
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duplicate post. deleted


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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:22 am  Reply with quote
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Actually Mike, I've used several different Chilean brands over the years like Star, Nasca, and a few others I can't recall off the top of my head. I seem to remember some of it also came from Peru, but its not that clear to me now. I think most of the shot is actually made at only a few locations near the lead and tin mines close to the Nasca plains and is packaged and branded with different labels under contract to various American importers.

I've found in the past that the extra hard shot out of South America has tended to be more uniformly sized and rounder than some of the more famous American brands like Lawrence. I think the South Americans now have a bigger and cheaper source for the metals needed and much less restrictive mining laws. Domestic American lead and tin mining is probably about finished. Perhaps the American shot manufacturers must rely more on salvaged metals now. This could be one of the factors at work here.

I've also used West Coast shot. It is also pretty good. Of course, any minor differences in hardness and uniformity between all these brands could easily change from lot ot lot. The differences are not that great to begin with. My results on target have been very satisfactory with all of the brands, so the practical difference between them is pretty insignificant. Nowadays, I simply eyeball the shot as I'm pouring it into the hopper. If it looks good, it will shoot good. Close enough for jazz anyway. Smile

I tend to fret more about hunting ammo than target fodder. The proper quality and shot size for different size birds is more important IMO. I want to kill my quarry as quickly and cleanly as possible. Sufficient shot size and hardness helps me do this. I also think the various ammo manufacturers could use better shot in their so called premium hunting loads. They've tended to skimp a bit on the quality and hardness of the shot in the past. Perhaps they are doing better today. I don't know. Ive been reloading nearly all my hunting ammo for years to make sure it is the best I can get for the job at hand.

For all that, it still seems to be the Indian and not the arrow when it comes to wingshooting. Knowing this helps prevent me from fretting over minor worries like shot uniformity and hardness when I'm on the line and shooting. I do better if I stay clear headed, confident, calm, and focused on the target.
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Black&Tan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:49 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Posts: 118
Location: N.Y.

This is why I consider Mister Campbell to be the Albert Einstein of shotshell reloading... or, if you prefer... the E.F. Hutton. When he talks, I listen!

Excellent job with very interesting results..

I love it when myths explode!
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