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Skeeter39
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:13 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 1

I have a French Robust 16 ga. SxS which is about 90 years old but which has been recently totally reconditioned and checked over by Turnbull. It is in excellent condition and I have been told that it is safe to use with standard factory loads. I tend to use the lightest loads possible, not going above 1 oz.

I was recently given some chamber inserts to allow me to use 20 ga. shells in this gun as I have a very light load for this gauge which I like very much. The real question is whether this is totally safe as pressures are relatively higher in 20 ga. than in 16 ga. Granted, I have more steel in the chamber due to the inserts and also a greater surface area of the hull as the insert has a greater diameter than the 20 ga. hull. I should think that these two factors would mitigate the increased pressure.

Any comments?
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:59 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 28 Dec 2005
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Location: Glendale, AZ

There has been some discussion about this issue in the 'barrel strength' thread. We have two issues: safety and how well do brl inserts work.
I tried the Browning 12-20 product in several guns and they did not seem to seal the chamber so lots of powder residue got in the action and it was hard to remove the spent shells-even AA and STS. The Gauge-Mates tubes fit well and AA's were easy to remove and my 20-410 tubes did pattern well BUT both my 12-410 and 20-410 tubes shot to a different point of aim (low) in my 20 and 12 Trojans. That may well be MY fault from my flinch and pushing forward in anticipation of (no) recoil (what a wimp) The 12-410 tubes however work quite well in my 105 yo GH Parker. Bottom line is probably you must pattern YOUR gun.
I still can't add anything intelligent re:safety (help somebody out there)
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:21 pm  Reply with quote
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Sorry-I'll try not to participate again. Since I'm no longer reloading, will probably give up on the tubes and just start using the ARMUSA Vintage 16 and 12 loads BUT can anyone talk them into making the 16 in 7/8 oz???
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woodcock
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:43 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 28 Oct 2005
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Location: Louisiana

I have used the old Savage" Four-Tenner" tubes in O/U's and SxS's with extractors and found them to be functional and sort'a fun. I need a light nylon hammer to 'set' them and require a dowell in the muzzle to remove them as they fit snugly with proper "O" rings. The extractors machined into the tubes functioned well
Just a 'toy' though. A 6# 3oz. .410 is a bit weighty for my taste.
woodcock
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SageRat
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:15 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 91

I have a couple of light 16's, one being a 950 BAR Austrian gun. I have a set of gauge mates from 16-20. Since it is a lower pressure gun, I loaded some 20's with 7/8 oz at 8000 psi to shoot through the gun. It patterns better than a normal 20 ga. gun, in my experience. And, the cases come out very easy from the adaptors, usuallly just fall out. In addition, I use the cheap Remington cases which end up being split and are thrown away.

If you can keep the pressures lower, you can use any 20 ga. case.
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:26 pm  Reply with quote
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The March/April Shooting Sportsman has a review of sub-gauge inserts. Tom Roster probably purposefully choose not to address the issue of use in damascus barrels.
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:24 pm  Reply with quote
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Short review of chamber inserts by Steve Smith in the March/April Pointing Dog Journal. Didn't dare touch the damascus issue.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:50 am  Reply with quote
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Location: massachusetts

These subgauge tubes have been around for nearly a century. They were commonly used in Europe, particularly in Germany. However, this was before reloading became very popular. These tubes have had a resurgence due to the better barrel sealing quality of modern one piece wads.

However, smart reloading pretty much eliminates the need for these tubes today. I can reload quite a range of shot weights in any gauge gun I want except .410. For my 16 ga guns, I can reload 5/8 through 1-1/4 oz loads. This covers everything from .410 to 12 ga class express loads. The loads work better, shoot cleaner, pattern and hit harder, and eject without difficulty.

Using these tubes is kind of backing into a solution. The same range of shot load weights can be put together for the 20 except the 1-1/4 oz 12 ga express class loads with shot bigger than #6. The 28 ga will handle 1/2 oz through 1 ounce reloads handily. reloading these specialty loads is not at all difficult.

If you own and shoot 16 ga guns, reloading is almost a necessity to get the full advantage of your chosen ga. However, every gauge can benifit far more from reloading than using sub gauge tubes except for competative skeet where a weight matched full length set of sub gauge tubes in a 12 ga set of carrier barrels is a big advantage. The only other advantage would go to the travelling gunner who can't bring reloads with him. Even then, 12 ga ammo is commonly available for loads from 7/8 oz up to 1-1/2 oz. Just pack the 12 if travelling abroad. It's the universal ga. 16GG.
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