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Member Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 1522 Location: NH

I've had 3 Citori 16ga guns among all the other Citoris I've owned.

The only problems were with the 16ga guns. Just sayin, as they say.

My one older standard 16ga has never given me one problem and has 1000s of rds through it.
The Feather I had developed multiple problems and was actually bought back by Browning from me as they couldn't fix them. One problem was the failure to fire.

The last one is a Grade 6 that was purchased unfired in the box. It had FTF problems from the start.
A new set of stronger springs from I believe J&P ???? fixed the problem totally. I've not had another FTF since they were put in over a yr ago. The gun has had about 5000 rds since then too.

Forget all the standard cleaning the FP holes, cleaning the reciver, lube this and that. None of that is going to work with the FTFs on the lower barrel of the Citori 16ga guns.
Get the new springs and have them installed. You problem will be solved.

I might also add that since the springs were put in, it doesn't matter what ammo I put in the gun. It all goes bang. Including many RGLs.

Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 154 Location: Denver, Colorado

I agree with TJC: this is a well trodden path by some 16ga Citori owners, and there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

While dirt or weak springs may aggravate the problem, the problem is that the inefficient geometry of the lower firing pin means the lower firing pin must be at its maximum allowed design length. Stiffer springs are an attractive solution because it is a DIY job and may overcome the inefficient geometry (they didn't for me, BTW), but stiffer springs means more wear and tear on the cocking mechanism during cocking. Also, for those who have bought the gun new, non-standard springs may void Browning's warranty.

Just get a new firing pin installed by Midwest Gun Works or Arts Gun and Sport (both authorized Browning repair shops), and you should be good to go with the standard springs.

JMHO.

--shinbone

Well, it finally happened. The Citori I have was purchased new in 2003 and I have never had a FTF until this weekend. It was on the lower barrel and with RGL shells. The firing pin made such a small dent that it wouldn't pop the primer. When I put the shell in the upper barrel, it fired. I just cleaned this gun a couple weeks ago. I also have used snap caps since the day I bought the gun so I don't think the spring has taken a set from storing the gun in the cocked position. When I started having this problem, I switched to Winchester shells and had no problems. The primers on the Winchester shells had a nice dent in the primers. I'm going to try some other brands this weekend. Maybe the RGL's I have just have hard primers. I've shot thousands of them before and never had a problem. I wonder if this is just a bad batch. I guess I can always change the spring.

Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 728

No matter which FTF thread you follow on this sire it always seems that RGLs are in the FTF chamber...

Just curious about the springs. I looked at a couple sites and they mention springs for all gauges but the 16ga. Brownells does have 16 ga springs. For those who have replaced springs, what are you using?

I've got J&P springs for mine but have yet to replace them as I have had no trouble. Also ordered a firing pin from browning just in case.
Good Luck,
Charlie Wink

Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 154 Location: Denver, Colorado

For factory standard springs, the 16ga Citori uses the exact same springs as the 20ga Citori - its even the same part number. I learned this when I called Browning to order new springs while I wrestled with my own FTF issues in my 16ga Citori. That was before I contacted Midwest Gun Works, who said the standard repair for FTFs in the lower barrel in a 16ga Citori is to install a maximum length firing pin.

--shinbone

Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 42

I replaced the springs with stronger ones and managed to solve the FTF problem but at the expense of doubling the trigger pull weight to about 12#.

Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 728

You should read the Marlin model 90 FTF thread (http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10222) before you do anything to your gun. Charles has made some intersting observations about the primer pockets on 16 gauge RGLs (and Rios).

After fooling around with this FTF issue, I've come to some conclusions. My
ftf issues only happen with cheap RGL. I've tried other shells and have had no problems. I dug out some of my once fired RGLs and found they have very light dents in the primer. Charles is right about the concave of the shell where the primer is placed. I suspect that the extra travel of the firing pin is what causes a light strike. I also think the primers may be a little hard. I took that fired shell and put in a few different primers i had on hand and then fired them in the bottom barrel. I used Remington STS,Cheddite, Nobel, Winchester. No problem with any of them. All had nice dents in the primer. I did notice that the inner part of the primer(where the firing pin strikes) moved out with a couple primers. That tells me that this concave of the shell is deffinately pronounced. I'm still not sure why the FTF only occurs on the bottom barrel. It may have something to do with the angle of the firing pin. For now I think I'll wait to change any of the gun parts. I'll just shoot RGLs in the upper barrel and something else in the bottom. I'll also just buy Winchesters if possible.

Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 728

I shoot factory RGLs in my autolaoder and pump (no FTFs) and shoot the reloads in the double guns.

Joined: 09 Jul 2009 Posts: 510 Location: Central CT

Hey Spike,

I am sure you do have good luck with the Remington ammo, but pumps and autoloaders have firing pins that can travel a lot farther than the Citori pins. Too bad they didn't make O/U's like that.

Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 728

huntnut

You are correct about the additional length of- and force applied by- firing pins in pumps and autoloaders. After many FTFs with RGLs in my double guns, but no FTFs with RGLs in my pump or autoloader, I chose this simple method to deal with the problem because I shoot a 16gauge pump, aurtoloader, SxS and O/U and RGLs are inexpensive.

My point is that there really is nothing wrong with gun(s) that FTF RGL ammo because 16 gauge RGL ammo is not well made. You can find out why I say this by reading Charles(Nick) Hammack's post on another thread (see above). I, personally, would not go to the extra time and expense to modify or "correct" the mechanism of a gun that is not really malfunctioning, but I do understand why some shooters might.

I went out yesterday and shot the same Citori 16 that I had FTF issues a couple weeks ago. This time I chose some RGL's from another case that i bought a few years ago. I shot four boxes and not one FFT. Has to be the shells.

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

If anybody wants to get rid of their RGL's I'll take them. Never had a FTF in my O/U. Of coarse it's one of those cheap Russian made things. I id have FTF's when I had the Citori, but that was with anything put through it.