16ga.com ~ View topic - Which 16 gauge guns ARE built on 16ga frames???

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

bustingclays: We had a decent hunt. I'm going to tell the whole story in another "An Indiana Story" chapter tomorrow, but I'm so excited about this 16 ga. Citori I wanted to reply to your post tonight.

I think I have found an excellent 16 gauge field gun in the 26" Lightning I bought Friday. I only fired two shots today--and each of them brought down a rooster; dropped both birds stone dead. These were the first two shots I have fired with the gun. It fits like a glove. My son has a 12 ga. Citori he uses; it has a 26" barrel also but this gun is much lighter and easier to carry. It points very well ! I had originally thought I would want a 28" barrel, but these 16 ga. Citoris are so hard to find that when I saw this one, I just went ahead. Now I'm looking for skeet chokes for it. And yes, I certainly did offer it to my son for use---but he stuck with his 2o ga. and, sadly, missed several shots.....

The problem with imports are the importers and not the manufacturers. Miroku made the 16 ga. O/U for their European market before Browning offered it here. Browning is after all, an importer and not a manufacturer. It makes none of its guns. However, It does offer better service and stands behind its guns better than any other gun importer in this country including Beretta. I understand that Beretta also makes a 16 ga gun for the European market, at least a n SxS. Beretta of America will not offer it here. They are an Importer and not the Manufacturer. They just licence the name and have no other ties to the Italian firm. (Its not the same set up as their supposedly American made military 9mm semi auto handgun production. Its a different division set up to meet political and military demands.)

You have to convince these importers to get it done. Remington, on the other hand, is a dominant factor in the American market. They could afford to produce a small framed 16 easier and cheaper than an import house, especially since they already make a suitable vehicle for the gun. However, even they have entered the importer market. I would not be surprized to see them go entirely offshore within the next decade. So will Winchester.

Of all the Remington autoloaders and pumps I have always favored the Special Fields. These guns with their English gripped stocks, shortened forearms, cut checkering, and short barrels handle well for me and look classy! I own an 1100 12 gauge Special Field and a 20 gauge Special Field. I would love to see Remington build a new 11-87 or 1100 16 gauge Special Field.

Paul Dwight

I agree, as long as it is on the LT frame and not the 12 frame as are the others. however, you have to let them know, and do so every so often. Persistance does pay off.

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

Getting back to the original point of this thread, I just picked up an early production (1956) Rem 870, 16 of course.

It's all original and in pretty good shape, with 28" full barrel.
On the digital scale it comes in at 6.63 lbs, which puts it a couple ounces lighter than a Sweet 16 with the same length.
Barrel alone is 1.70 lbs.
Needless to say, it has a very muzzle-light feel.

Rem lists the current crop of 16s with 28" at 7 1/4 lbs. The 12 ga express I have weighs 7.90.

Looking at the '50s 16 along side the '90s 12, the receivers look pretty much identical. So maybe the light contour barrel along with the thinner stock and corn cob forearm make the difference.

Although it may be built on a 12 frame, these early 870s may deserve consideration as a "true" 16 based on weight.

Pete

Back in the '50s and '60s, Remington frequently used a light weight grade of mahogany called banak as a stock wood on their 16 and 20 ga. 1100/870, 58 sportsman guns. Sometimes the wood is a very decidedly reddish color. Other times the banak was stained to look more like open grained black walnut and was hard to distinguish. Plus, some walnut is also light and open grained. A lot of pecan wood was deeply stained or finished with tinted varnish to resemble walnut too. They also hollowed out .the butts on these sub gauge guns more.

Remington stopped the practice of using substitute stock woods, because Marlin and Winchester, the two biggest competators had a field day of pointing out that they only used American black walnut on their guns. The very conservative gun press of the day picked up on the point and dragged Remington's reputation through the mud for daring to not stock with walnut.

As an interesting aside, in the early '60s Winchester bought up a lot of that same cheaply priced pecan from the Georgia area and shipped it to Japan so Kodensa could make stocks of it on the first couple of runs of the standard grade 101 O/U guns. I learned this when the finish on one of my early 20 ga. models peeled and revealed an almost white, very stark wood with no grain or figure. I sent the gun back, demanded an explanation, and the stock was quickly and quietly replaced with an upgraded walnut stock and forend. Their catalog listed the wood as fine American walnut. Knowledge is power, and I clubbed them pretty good with it over the matter They became very accomodating. How nice! Very Happy

Today, most subgauge guns are shot more at targets than birds or game. The extra weight is a bit of an aid in shooting well on the target ranges. So nobody is making a big issue over added weight. Plus, the gun press of today would not dare belittle Remington or any other manufacturer. They tend to roll over and present their tummies like friendly and nicely trained puppies. Either that or the advertizing revenue dries up. Woof!! Wink

Brad,
If you are interested in a Model 58 Sportsman I refer you to my Dec 7 posting. I found one for $125 that was in very nice condition. This 16 ga gun had a plain 26in barrel choked imp cyl. If you are interested ,I'll tell you where it is and give you a POC.
Paul

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

Here's the thread about 16 sized frames.
Pete

Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 42 Location: Iowa

Model 31 and Model 48 Remington 16 gauges are built on scaled frames.

Bill Layman

So is the model 37 Ithaca which started out as the Remington Model 17. Its a great handling gun too.