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Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 2 Location: Navasota, TX

I am brand new to 16 gauges, (just had to have one), and fairly new to shotgunning. I found a Winchester model 12 in 16 gauge in really good condition (built in 1942) with a full choke, 28 inch, plain barrel.

Should I take it to Briley and have the chokes opened to modified, or just shoot it as-is? I am not interested in screw-in chokes, adjustable chokes, or anything else that would detract from the wonderful lines of this fine old gun. I will be using it primarily for phez, and maybe doves.

What say ye?

Cool

and welcome to the 'Worshipful Society of 16g Winchester M-12ers'
You're likely to use the gun a lot more with tubes (meaning alot more FUN):
Low gun skeet with skeet or IC tube
Quail and SC with IC tube
Dove and early season pheasants with Mod tube
Trap, late season pheasant and turkey with Full tube
I see your a TX guy but Nu-Line Guns in Mo. http://www.nulineguns.com/services.htm are M-12 specialists and might be cheaper than Briley. Colonial Arms in AL www.colonialarms.com are also M-12 specialists.
You CAN (and I have) open it to Mod and use it for everything by patterning a bunch of different loads BUT you got that puppy to use it and will probably enjoy it more with tubes-so just do it Very Happy

BTW: There are two threads going now about tubes and choke over on http://bbs.shootingsportsman.com on the first page of the 'Guns and Ammunition' Forum

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

If you're shooting pheasants over dogs, especially of the pointing variety, I'd say open it to something in the IC-light mod range, maybe like a .010-.012 constriction. If you're not using it for turkeys or waterfowl, or extremely long shots at pheasants, that amount of choke should make for a pretty good "all around" gun.

Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 2 Location: Navasota, TX

I probably just need to pattern it to see how tight it really is, and then shoot as much as possible before bird season opens.

I don't shoot at clay targets much and have no interest in doing so except to practice for real birds. I have several other guns in gauges from 28 to 12, so I don't really need an "all around" gun. The guns I do have with tubes tend to wear the same choke all the time, so I don't really see the point in messing with having them installed in the Mod 12.

Maybe I just need to leave it as is and look for an IC or mod barrel for it.

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

Another option would be to use spreader wads--they can open up a constriction a bit and the ol' 12 would still be -to me- intact Wink

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

Amen to that, HOA. Shoot---Since you have other guns, consider leaving that jewel of a 16 ga. Model 12 intact with its full choke. I shot a lot of pheasants last fall with my full choke Model 12. It was fun; and with a full choke I didn't lose many cripples because there weren't many...

Sometimes choke tubes are the answer, and sometimes not. In the case of most single barreled guns, and most modern doubles, tubes can and will make the gun more versitile.

However, in some cases, tubes will not work. The barrels of many of the pre WW II American and European double, some of the post war Spanish and Italian guns prior to 1980, and even some later European guns were regulated by trial and error, hand labor, and techniques not commonly used today. The bores of these older guns aren't aligned for convergance on a fixture and brazed together like the barrels on today's guns are. Installing tube will often deregulate them.

There is also the personal choice factor. Some folks just don't like the idea of altering their guns. In the case of a very special gun, installing tubes might ruin the value. The answer is spreader loads. You can buy them as loaded ammo or you can easily reload them. Contact Polywad in Georgia. I've been using their inserts now since last summer. They work great. Both my AyA Matador and the Ithaca 37 I just got have full chokes. Properly loaded inserts have turned my skeet and hunting loads into very effective ammo inside 25 yards.

Its quick and very easy to do. I've found loading spreader ammo hardly slows me down on the Grabber. It might take me an extra minute per box of loaded ammo.

After seating the wad and dropping the shot, all I do is place the polywad insert stem down in the wad guide and seat it into the shot with an extra pull of the handle. the press ram automatically centers the insert straight into the shell mouth. The rest of the sequence is as usual. Nothing could be simpler. For one ounce loads, use the 1-1/8 ounce SP-16 wad. the stem on the spreader insert displaces exactly 1/8 ounce of shot. For 7/8 ounce loads, use the R16 wad as is. For 3/4 ounce loads, one 28 ga card wad in the shot cup plus the insert will do perfectly.

I killed a bunch of snipe, woodcock, and quail with the 3/4 ounce spreaders out of the full barrels of the Matty last fall. 1 ounce spreader loads of #6 shot downed a bunch of pheasant too. I did not have one malfunction with these inserts. Every shell worked perfectly and gave me nice open patterns. i used regular ammo in the off barrel for the long shots. It was like having a skeet or improved cylinder barrel and a full.

Anyway, give them a try. they work very well. hope this info helps. 16GG.

Member Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 21 Location: Spencer IA

Follow Wolfchief and hoashooter advice and leave the old M12 16 with what it was born with.That's my opinion