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< 16ga. General Discussion ~ Jack O'Connor and shotguns PICS ADDED see first posting. |
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Posted:
Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:31 pm
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Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 689
Location: Ontario
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XVIgauge, I always get a chuckle about this sort of thing. Because a writer has a marvelous way with words, his prejudices ( I mean that in the best sense of the word) should be taken as the gospel truth?
O'Connor was a great writer, no doubt. He was somewhat knowledgeable about hunting and firearms. He was not, clearly, America's foremost expert on firearms, their development and use in America. This is just common sense.
The fact maybe that O'Connor had as big a blind spot as you do about the wartime use of rifles by Britons as compared to Americans and how that experience affected the two countries most common choice for shotgun configuration.
Personally I'd suggest it has something to do with the different styles of hunting, but that's just me. |
_________________ 1921 Pieper 29" 6 lbs 10 oz
2003 Citori White Lightning 26" 6 lbs 10 oz
1932 Husqvarna 310AS 29.5" 6 lbs 7 oz
1925 Ferlach 29" 6 lbs 7 oz
1923 Greifelt 29" 6 lbs 1 oz
1928 Simson 29.5" 6 lbs
1893 Lindner Daly FW 28” 5 lb 11oz |
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Posted:
Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:11 pm
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Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 1621
Location: Williamsburg, VA
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Could it be that doubles were more expensive to make and could not compete with pumps and semi-autos that generally were less expensive and offered the shooter more that two shots? |
_________________ BarkeyVA |
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Posted:
Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:09 pm
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Member
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 333
Location: Central Florida
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BarkeyVA wrote: |
Could it be that doubles were more expensive to make and could not compete with pumps and semi-autos that generally were less expensive and offered the shooter more that two shots?
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Yes, Jack said that too.
xvigauge |
_________________ "Terror lies not in the bang, but in the anticipation of it."
Alfred Hitchcock |
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Posted:
Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:19 pm
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Member
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 333
Location: Central Florida
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canvasback wrote: |
XVIgauge, I always get a chuckle about this sort of thing. Because a writer has a marvelous way with words, his prejudices ( I mean that in the best sense of the word) should be taken as the gospel truth?
O'Connor was a great writer, no doubt. He was somewhat knowledgeable about hunting and firearms. He was not, clearly, America's foremost expert on firearms, their development and use in America. This is just common sense.
The fact maybe that O'Connor had as big a blind spot as you do about the wartime use of rifles by Britons as compared to Americans and how that experience affected the two countries most common choice for shotgun configuration.
Personally I'd suggest it has something to do with the different styles of hunting, but that's just me.
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Jack didn't say this was THE resaon, he said that "perhaps" it was. I also didn't mean to say that I took his example of one of the possibilities as the definitive and only possible truth, though it may have inadvertently come out that way. I'm not taking his word as "gospel," but pretty close. After all, you and I never were shooting editors for years for Outdoor Life Magazine; neither did we write several books on rifles and shotguns, (I'm just sayin'). But, we do have the right to our opinions and you might be completely correct. But, no one will ever know for sure; only that the process did happen.
xvigauge |
_________________ "Terror lies not in the bang, but in the anticipation of it."
Alfred Hitchcock |
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Posted:
Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:26 pm
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Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9472
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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Sure will be happy when folks start talking about their shooting and hunting adventures !
Our Big Duck season starts 31 Oct and I have started preparing
Now, what gun, what gun??
Should it be an A-5, Model 12, Aya, Drilling, Citori, what to do, what to do.
What would Jack say? Ask Eleanor?
Mike
p.s. fun reading
http://bluepike.tripod.com/Model21/27396/27396.htm |
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USAF RET 1971-95 |
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Posted:
Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:33 pm
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Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 443
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It should, of course, be a sixteen gauge. It should be in the mode of a classic English sidelock game gun. It should have been set up to fit you perfectly and have a straight grip and double triggers. Ejectors and choke tubes are optional, but add versatility to the gun. This particular sample was born in Spain some 13 years ago and is my go to gun and it allowed me, at age 64, to take my first ever ruffed grouse this week.
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_________________ Grulla 215k
Bayard Hammergun
Marlin Model 90 |
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Posted:
Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:13 pm
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Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 1621
Location: Williamsburg, VA
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Before talking about an upcoming hunting trip, I grew up shooting a 20 ga. Ithaca model 37 pump. My favorite upland bird gun is a 16 ga. Marlin Model 90 O/U. However my only 25 straight shooting wobble trap was with a 16 ga. Eastern Arms 101.7 (Stevens 5100) SxS ( choked Mod/Full) the first time I shot it!
I've never hunted with it, and even though it weighs a little over 7 lbs, I'm seriously thinking about taking it along with my Model 90 on an upcoming duck/pheasant combo hunt around Russell, KS my nephew and I will be doing with Stuart Young at Last Chance Wings and Labs in early December.
I plan to use a 12 ga. Beretta Extrema 2 with a Kick-Off stock for waterfowl. |
_________________ BarkeyVA |
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Posted:
Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:22 am
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Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 70
Location: Virginia
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As an American I prefer double triggers and straight stocks. If they don't have them make [URL=http://s449.photobucket.com/user/simcgunner/media/WP_20140912_001_zps2193fb16.jpg.html]
[/URL] |
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Posted:
Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:55 am
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Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 443
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Last night my wife and I discovered that ruffed grouse are our favorite game bird.
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_________________ Grulla 215k
Bayard Hammergun
Marlin Model 90 |
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Posted:
Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:43 pm
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Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.
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Well, lets have the receipe used on the grouse. Looks good.
Canvasback, the "Americans as rifleman" comment goes back in time to an era when a country armed with smooth bore muskets attempted to force it's will upon a country full of hunters armed with Kentucky rifles.
It is the history Jack would have been taught in school.
Nothing more.
Best,
Ted |
_________________ "Well sir, stupidity isn't technically against the law, and on that note, I'll remove the handcuffs and you are free to go". |
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Posted:
Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:34 pm
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Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3185
Location: NCWa
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[quote="Ted Schefelbein"]
It is the history Jack would have been taught in school.
/quote]
It may have started with riflemen taking advantage of the increased effective range over the musketed adversaries, but more prominent in Jack's history class would have been the affect of American Riflemen such as Alvin York during the unpleasantness contemporary to Jack's secondary schooling. |
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Posted:
Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:13 am
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Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 696
Location: WA/AK
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Quote: |
It may have started with riflemen taking advantage of the increased effective range over the musketed adversaries, but more prominent in Jack's history class would have been the affect of American Riflemen such as Alvin York during the unpleasantness contemporary to Jack's secondary schooling.
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When our boys were shooting 1903 Springfields with straight grip stocks?!? |
_________________ Share the knowledge |
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Posted:
Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:31 am
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Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 689
Location: Ontario
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[quote="AmericanMeet"]
Ted Schefelbein wrote: |
It is the history Jack would have been taught in school.
/quote]
It may have started with riflemen taking advantage of the increased effective range over the musketed adversaries, but more prominent in Jack's history class would have been the affect of American Riflemen such as Alvin York during the unpleasantness contemporary to Jack's secondary schooling.
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You are referring to a war where, as a percentage of your male population, you had about the smallest percentage of any of the combatants AND you were last in for the shortest period of time.
IF, and it is a big if, American shotgun preferences are based on rifle use, it's not from war experience, but from 200 years prior to WWI of widespread use for hunting and personal protection. We become familiar with what we learn to shoot with, the rifles our father's taught us to shoot with. |
_________________ 1921 Pieper 29" 6 lbs 10 oz
2003 Citori White Lightning 26" 6 lbs 10 oz
1932 Husqvarna 310AS 29.5" 6 lbs 7 oz
1925 Ferlach 29" 6 lbs 7 oz
1923 Greifelt 29" 6 lbs 1 oz
1928 Simson 29.5" 6 lbs
1893 Lindner Daly FW 28” 5 lb 11oz |
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Posted:
Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:33 am
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Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 443
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Ted Schefelbein wrote: |
Well, lets have the receipe used on the grouse. Looks good.
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Thank you, Ted. It really couldn't be simpler. Light dredge of flour, sautee in olive oil and butter with just a bit of fresh garlic added. Brown being careful not to over cook them. The pineapple slices would normally have been charred on the grill, but these I just seared in a bare skillet. Add tossed salad and you're all set. FYI, this is the same way I have prepared quail breast filets for decades. |
_________________ Grulla 215k
Bayard Hammergun
Marlin Model 90 |
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Posted:
Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:03 am
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Member
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 333
Location: Central Florida
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Researcher wrote: |
Quote: |
It may have started with riflemen taking advantage of the increased effective range over the musketed adversaries, but more prominent in Jack's history class would have been the affect of American Riflemen such as Alvin York during the unpleasantness contemporary to Jack's secondary schooling.
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When our boys were shooting 1903 Springfields with straight grip stocks?!?
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Good point, but the grip was not the only factor.
xvigauge |
_________________ "Terror lies not in the bang, but in the anticipation of it."
Alfred Hitchcock |
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