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Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Griff,

I have seen them get really brittle after a few loads, especially after using SR7625 or PB, but I don't ever remember them being that closed up. The black hulls seemed worse than the green hulls. Either way the plastic in those hulls seems to react with some powders and they just don't live very long.

I was just curious.

Mark , John is right he has some RGL's that are about closed up indeed and your correct the slow burning powders sure do shorten hull life by a vast margin , that is why you see me shoot very fast to fast powders , I am kinda frugel and want my hulls to last as long as I can get them to last .

Regards Charles

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Nick,

That is the down side of auto-loaders. You have to feed them right, Green Dot is about as fast a powder as I can use and still have the action run correctly.

Of course I really like SR7625 and a nice 1 oz. or 1 1/8 oz. load, that is my favorite (I am laughing 'cause I know a lot of you are cringing, "OMG the recoil"

). It does eat up some hulls, but they are real sweet in my shotgun. Ya' see that is the up side of autoloaders, a guy can shoot 1 1/8 oz. all day long and not know it. Wink

Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 129 Location: hong kong

OK, with good information in hand, and a plan:

I ran a number of tests last night, and thanks to your input I think that my problem is identified, and importantly solved.

My first step was to run 15 throws through the existing set up.
The results proved to be highly variable. I experienced weight variations of up to 8.5 grains. With no two throws being within 1 grain of the proceeding, or following throw. Pretty eye opening Shocked

but cleary representing my experinece in shooting the shells.

Step 2: I then inspected the powder baffel and sure enough both the metal, and rubber rings were installed. I removed the two rings and re-threw 15 shells.

This time the first 10 shells showed 0 (zero) variance. Smile

Over the next 5 shells I saw variances of up to -0.4 grains. This seems like the issue is solved, and the variance seems pretty acceptable to me.

Just for interest I pulled out the instructions that came with the powder baffle to see if I had miss read them.

From the instruction sheet:

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

Rerundogchaser. Have you ever tried SR-4756 in your auto? I use that for my 1oz and 1 1/8oz loads and works well in the 11-48's. My 4756 is in the old dupont can and my green dot came from hercules.

Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 129 Location: hong kong

Mike, yes I am using an adjustable charge bar. So if I understand your post you are suggesting that you run your baffel with the rubber and brass grommets.

BigCreekMI offered the suggestion of removing the grommets, and it seemed to work..

I cycled 3 shells before I pulled of the 15 for weighing.... and the next 10 were spot on.

I am now a little concerned that my observation last night was good luck vs good management.

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Something is not quite as it should be.

My progressives will normally drop +/- 0.1 so consistently that it gets boring to check the drops. The powders I have or still use, 700-X, SR7625, PB, Clays, Universal, American Select, Red Dot, Green Dot, and most of the Winchester Ball Powders.

I use multi-scale bars, with their baffle and the brass washer directly on top of the bar and the rubber grommet between the washer and the baffle. The baffle is tight. I never let the bottle get past 1/4 full. I use the larger bottles. If I leave the washers out I have powder leaking out of the bar, at a pretty good rate.

I am pretty sure that the issue is the bar movement. I could be wrong but.....

Think about it this way, the I.D. of the brass washer, the rubber grommet and the baffle are all the same, the only difference is that with the washer/grommet gone there is nothing riding on top of the bar. The Multi-scale bar chambers are kinda square/rectangle. With the washers in place the bar has to run entirely to the left to open itself completely to the expose the chamber, with out the tight seal, the powder has a better chance of running into the chamber, but the bar still needs to run completely left to get the powder drops consistent. That 0.4 grs will get to be 0.5 or 0.6 during the reloading process that can get to be about 50 FPS when you are shooting.

There are two problems that reloaders have with Multi-Scale bars. The first is they usually don't check and readjust for the movement. The second is they don't realize that you must open the chamber up larger than you want and then close it back down to the proper reading.

Please understand I am just trying to help, not trying to be a know-it-all. If you are happy with the 0.4 sorry for intruding. Let me know and I will erase this post.

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

spr310,

Yes I have used SR4756, it operated my 1100 just fine.

Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 129 Location: hong kong

Dogchaser37, i appreciate your input. I am also concerned that my set up is not performing...and is not as it should be.

I did check the movement and right now it seems to stop at 1/4 to 1/8 inch. Much more than the 1/16" you suggest. Tonight I will put back in the grommets, and try that adjustment.

Keep the insight coming as I am not satisfied that I have this nailed yet.
Ajax,

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

ajaxfjr

Make it actually touch the screw that holds the bar in, just a tiny bit. I am not suggesting that it binds on the screw, just enough to say that it does.

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 129 Location: hong kong

OK so now I have a new problem.

When I adjust the actuating rod to ensure that the charge bar goes all the way left the bar lock engages and will not automatically release.

If I back off just a bit the bar lock releases, but then I am back where I started that is without enough left travel.

How do I adjust the trip rod so that it will release the bar lock on the upstroke.

Thanks for your patience.

Ajax.

Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 960

Ajaxfjr,

The reprime tube needs to be dropped 1/16" at a time until the bar lock actuating rod(very center as you look at the machine) is released upward enough to disengage the bar lock.

Different basewad heights may/can/will affect this adjustment. You can only make this adjustment with a primed hull in the powder drop/ reprime station.

Be sure you have empty hulls under both the powder and shot drop stations, best to use hulls with spent primers in them right now. You need the powder and shot bottles to have something in them at this point or the powder measure assembly will want to rotate up without weight in the bottles and your adjustments will be wasted and incorrect.

Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 129 Location: hong kong

Last night I set about dropping the reprime tube. In the end I dropped the tube a little more than 1/4 inch from factory. I ended up playing around with it 4-5 times to get it just to the point of releasing the slide bar.

Surprise, Surprise Surprised

my grabber now throws consistent charges, and indexes seamlessly.

Through out this exchange I have been pulling out and refering to the Grabber manual. I wanted to see if the info was in there, and if I had been mis reading it. At each step I have been amazed that after reading these posts the manual sections dealing with the ajustments came into focus. At the end of the day the MEC manual outlines all these ajustments, but the additional clarity from Dogchaser put it all together. These instructions (and the post a couple of months ago on ajusting crimp) are now part of the MEC manual.

Many thanks to all for your input, and tripple thanks to Dogchaser for seeing me through to the end.

Ajax.