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pudelpointer
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:52 am  Reply with quote
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Who owns the dies or machines that made the win 16 ga AA type hulls in the past ? If the equipment is still around why not make 250-500k for a nice profit. I would buy a lifetime supply and I'm sure there are others out there. Maybe together we can get this done. I still have 500 or so and nothing loads or shoots like them and they last.
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:14 am  Reply with quote
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I just happen to have a brand new box of 16ga "Upland Field" loads, 2 3/4 dram, 1 1/8 oz. They were made in the USA by Olin. But in view of the fact that Olin is having all of its 1 oz 16ga stuff made "off shore" (unlike Fed and Rem), I don't think they'd be interested in cranking up AA hull production again. And it's been a long time since they made those.

What amazes me is that the reloading manuals keep referring to "Winchester AA-Type" hulls, which have not been made in at least 10 years, maybe more like 15.
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clayflingythingy
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:51 am  Reply with quote



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I believe the reloading manuals keep referring to obsolete components in their data because they haven't updated 16 data in the last 20 years!
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pudelpointer
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:54 am  Reply with quote
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Well as 16 gauge guy said before on the wad deal if you don't ask it won't happen. Maybe the 16 gauge group can buy the equipment not being used and will never be used for peanuts then get some chinese company to produce them for pennies. My point is the equipment exists somewhere and plastic is cheap.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:50 am  Reply with quote
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PP, Olin has been approached by more than a few folks to buy the molds for the WWAA16 wad. They will not sell them. They will not budge. They do not care. They refuse to create their own competition.

Remington has literally walked all over them in the target ammo market by introducing a more reloadable shell that the AA shells. Olin screwed itself here by continuously cheapening the hull until it would not reload well more than three or four times tops. Remington Premiers would outlast them by double. The STS hulls aren't nearly as tough as the older Premiers but are still far better than the last of the AA hulls. On top of that, I can't tell you the number of the last bunch of AA28 ga hulls I bought that split on the first firing.

Now Olin has introduced the new AA polyformed hull with the cupped plastic base wad. Its supposed to have a tougher, longer lasting hull wqall and mouth. The problem is that nobody cares anymore. They want Remingtons. Also, unfortunately, the old AA wads and clones don't work that well in them. However, these clones and the old AA wads work beautifully in the competition's hulls. DuH!!!

Olin keeps right on shooting itself in the foot by making the dumbest decisions of any of the companies out there. Its almost comical to watch them screw up. 16GG
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pudelpointer
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:21 pm  Reply with quote
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They keep publishing data on them because they last forever. I have hulls I loaded atleast 15 times.The remington and fiocchi load nice but 2nd or 3rd time you load them half are split at the crimps.
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:18 pm  Reply with quote
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And the cheap Remington Gun Club hulls can be used with the same formulas as the STS, and are just about as good when it comes to reloading.
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Black&Tan
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:03 pm  Reply with quote



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What we need is a reloadable plastic hull with a brass head instead of the corrosive steel. This really burns my a$$!
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clayflingythingy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:30 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
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pudelpointer wrote:
Well as 16 gauge guy said before on the wad deal if you don't ask it won't happen. Maybe the 16 gauge group can buy the equipment not being used and will never be used for peanuts then get some chinese company to produce them for pennies. My point is the equipment exists somewhere and plastic is cheap.


I have a background in manufacturing and there is a very good chance the tooling no longer exists. Tooling has a finite life. If it wore out, Winchester may have looked at the cost to replace the tooling and decided sales did not warrant the investment. And if Winchester moved production offshore for other reasons the tooling may have been scrapped for tax purposes or for a mundane reason such as lack of storage space. Very few companies keep tooling in storage that they have no intention of ever using again.
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old16
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:36 am  Reply with quote
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There are several reasons why olin may not sell the equipment or make new hulls off of the old equipment. 1st. is probably tax pourposes which the may not be able to sell the machinery. 2nd. as in many business there probably is an agreement with the other manufactures that they will not make the 16 hull or wad seperate as long as the other manufactures do not dip into certain lines that olin has. Ford, GM and most of the Auto companies, and Medical industries do this. You know Poop and stink kinda hang together.
If there is enough interest and expertise out there that would be willing to research and maybe invest a little money the 16 teeners could probably produce our own and also sell to most of the rest of the public.
If there are any Plastic engineers out there with injection molding experience that is not on the negitave side speak up. It might be worth a try. If some of these Ammo companies find out there is someone will to get in the market it would probably stir there interest to produce some runs to keep someone else from intering the field.
Just my thoughts but I have seen this work before. I have seen this done in the banking business alot.
Forgive my spelling and some of the typing my fingers don't fit the keys very will.

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:06 pm  Reply with quote
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Old 16, you are dead on about the agreement not to improve the 16 ga ammo line too much. However, it is now only between Remington and Winchester. Its also showing signs of coming unglued. The 16 ga. market is definately rebounding back in spite of the efforts of Stinky and Poopy trying to put it in the grave over the last 50 years.

Now, emerging competitors are addressing this re-expanding market. Stinky might stand pat, but Poopy is beginning to edge towards the door on his way out of this little cabal. Remington still has both guns and ammo to sell. It is the last complete guns and ammo company left in America, so it has more to lose by digging in its heels. I am hoping Remington finally throws in the towel on the old plan and finally jumps on the bandwagon. They do offer the 870 and 1100 plus the Sparten in 16. Now is the time for a better shell too. Lets bug the crap out of them to do it. once that becomes a fact, better guns might also follow.
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woodcock
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:33 am  Reply with quote
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Old 16--Wasn't there a fellow on this site(slidehammer?) who had the requisite experience for your proposal?
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old16
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:45 am  Reply with quote
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Woodcock
I don't remember see any.

If enough guys got together to have the dies and molds made,just about any manufacture of plastic injection would produce the hulls. Still need dies for the brass unless we could find where they are already punched out.
There are many small plastic companys that are willing to take small orders just to get the business.

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XVIgauge
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:14 am  Reply with quote
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old 16,
You might just have something there. Let's not let this idea die. What do you need all of us to do?
XVI

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Jabez Cowboy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:51 pm  Reply with quote



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Howdy All ;
I think that we need to let the manufactures know first that we want better ammo and that we will buy it ,if they make what we want ...

Here in Canada the dealers don't bring in the Reminington Game loads just the expensive stuff ....

Jabez Cowboy

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