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ColoradoPaul
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:52 am  Reply with quote
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To you Sterlingworth fans out there:

I saw a 16g Fox Sterlingworth for sale today. Briefly described below:

-Extractors

-No case colors

-Screws in good shape

-Action seems tight but I noticed small gouges on the “tables” (if that is what the flat areas the barrels rest on is called)

-No light visible between the “tables” mentioned above the and the barrels “flats” (if that is what they are called)

-Faded blue barrels with a few scratches and nicks but doesn’t appear to be dented.

-Barrels seem round and in need of a good cleaning – I gave them the “ring test” (by hanging and tapping them) I’d read about and the “ring” well. Not a dull sound

-Barrels were marked Smokeless Powder Steel or something like that

-Wood shows a few scratches and dings, but no cracks – has had a recoil pad added.

-Didn’t measure the barrel length, but the fellow said the 2 and 4 on the barrel indicated modified and full.

The fellow was asking $650. Any thoughts on the price?
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:19 pm  Reply with quote
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See the 'Buying a classic SxS ????" thread. It's SO easy to make a $650 mistake with old SxSs. This could be a great deal for a rough outside but mechanically sound 'bird shooter' but I'd purchase ONLY with the agreement that it goes straight to a good doublegun smith with return if not safe to shoot. Be sure the chamber is 2 and 3/4 and not 2 and 9/16 and the top-lever is R of center. What in the world could happen to a gun to get gouges on the watertable though?? Get us the serial # and we could tell you production year and if a Philly vs Utica (Savage) gun. Let us know how it works out.
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jchandler
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:16 pm  Reply with quote
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what revdocdrew said,,,,,except I wouldn't let the short chambers stop me if the rest of the gun is ok. I bet most Sterlingworths are short, but they are well made and will handle 2 3/4in shells that are loaded to the appropriate pressures.
My Sterlingworth actually measures closer to 2 7/16in.

I'd love to get a $650 Sterlingworth!! Mine cost quite a bit more!

Jeff
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TJC
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:52 pm  Reply with quote
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jchandler wrote:

I'd love to get a $650 Sterlingworth!! Mine cost quite a bit more!
Jeff


Me too. Last one I bought was a lot more but in excellent condition.

Don't worry about the short chambers. There are a bunch of places to get 2.5" shells if you really want to eliminate any worries. Or, like they said, lower pressure loads in 23/4" should be just fine.

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ColoradoPaul
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:53 pm  Reply with quote
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Doesn't matter. Called back and it is gone.

Good question Revdocdrew. How would a fellow get gouges on the water table? A fellow would have to beat on it I'd think. Its probably best that it is gone. Someone else can figure out how the gouges got there!

Thanks for your help

Paul
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Brad6260
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:32 pm  Reply with quote
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Gouges on the water-table of a Sterlingworth? That's easy.

That could easily be the result of Revdoc making one too many smart alec remarks about my Parker and finding out that I used his beloved Fox barrel lugs as a bottle opener for a few of my Bud Lights.


Who said that ?
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TJC
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:46 pm  Reply with quote
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Brad6260 wrote:
Gouges on the water-table of a Sterlingworth? That's easy.

That could easily be the result of Revdoc making one too many smart alec remarks about my Parker and finding out that I used his beloved Fox barrel lugs as a bottle opener for a few of my Bud Lights.


Who said that ?


Cruel, very cruel. Very Happy

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rpm
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:55 pm  Reply with quote



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Are all Sterlingworth guns, even the Savage manufactured ones, 2.5 or 2 7/16? I just picked mine up last month and haven't had a chance to get it into the 'smith yet to have the chambers measured.
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fin2feather
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:24 pm  Reply with quote
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Fellas, I'm interested in most any $650 Sterlingworth you find; if you don't want 'em, just holler at ol' Fin. To paraphrase Will Rogers, I never met a Fox shotgun I didn't like.

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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:28 pm  Reply with quote
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The changeover from Philly to Utica (Savage) was 29'. Most of the Philly guns had short chambers. Most of the Utica guns had 2 and 3/4 and if so, should be marked on the L brl. The Galazan chamber length thingys are a pretty good investment for any SxS guy.
If your Sterlingworth has a 4 weight (light) brl-I'd have a doublegun specialist do the chamber lengthening. You should be able to see a faded number on the brl lug.
Another 16g. Sterlingworth Society guy! Very Happy
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TJC
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:05 am  Reply with quote
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Hey rev, what about a Utica gun w/o a 23/4" marking? The 16 ga I picked up a while ago is not marked. A guy at the shop that transferred it used a chamber guage and it appeared to be 23/4 but it also appeared to be just a bit shy of the 23/4" line. It was definately not 2.5".
I took a few spent 23/4" shells and they fit w/o problem and forcing.

I'm not planning on using any high pressure high brass shells. The Merkel can handle those. Mostly will use the Remington Game loads when using the Sterly or similar rounds.

I'm going to have another smith look at it but I was wondering whay you thought. Question

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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:46 am  Reply with quote
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Hmmm . . . some strange stuff here. First, on the Sterlingworth described above, Fox did not mark chokes on their guns using numbers. 2 and 4 would indeed be M/F--but that would be on an Ithaca, not on a Fox. "Smokeless Powder Steel" . . . I don't like to say "never", but I don't think I've ever seen a SW so marked. I don't have one to look at, but I believe the standard marking is "Sterlingworth Compressed Fluid Steel" or something like that. Foxes were never made with Damascus barrels, so marking them "Smokeless Powder Steel" would be odd anyhow. But Ithacas certainly were marked that way. I'm guessing that Sterlingworth was actually an Ithaca.

The old standard 16ga chamber length was 2 9/16". Per the above, all the Philadelphia Foxes came from the factory with short chambers. The later Savage-made guns were 2 3/4", but if they came that way from the factory, they should be marked 2 3/4". However, Savage automatically lengthened the chambers on any gun that was sent back to them for any kind of work. In addition, there are plenty of Foxes out there with chambers that have been lengthened by other gunsmiths.

A fired 2 3/4" shell will fit ok into a 2 9/16" chamber, or at least some of them will. I took a couple of once-fired Winchesters and dropped them in the 2 1/2" chambers of my 16ga Greener, no problem. A couple others, that had been fired a few times, would not fit--but the problem was probably case expansion rather than length, because the "misfits" wouldn't go in my 16ga Francotte either, and it has 2 3/4" chambers.

The pressure on the Rem (or other) 1 oz game loads may well be as high as on the 1 1/8 oz high brass stuff. However, because the velocity and shot weight are both lower, the recoil will be a lot less. SW's are generally pretty light, but they're strong guns. The 1 ozers may kick you around a bit and maybe even cause you to join the 16ga reloaders group so you can work up 7/8 oz reloads, but they won't likely hurt the gun.
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TJC
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:24 am  Reply with quote
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Larry,
Thanks for your reply.
So it appears I have a Sterlingworth, marked Sterlingworth Fluid Compressed Steel on the rt barrel, a Utica gun made by Savage marked on the left barrel. Seems to have 23/4" chambers or very close to that but is not marked anywhere 23/4" like it should be. Wow. Oh yea, ser # is 369,8xx. So it is towards the end of the production which would lead me to believe they are in fact 23/4" chambers. But with these old guns I guess you can't take anything for granted.

I might just do what I originally intended to do. Just order up some 2.5" shells and be happy with that. The Merkel or the Browning will get the call for the heavy stuff. LOL

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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:35 am  Reply with quote
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Yeah-like Larry said Very Happy Wish we could actually see that gun to figure out what in the world it is?

Interesting-my late production Utica gun is marked: Special Alloy-----Forged Steel. See the DGJs Autumn and Winter 04' re: brl markings.

TJC: VERY likely your chambers were lengthened at some point. Remember, the old paper shell cases were/are much thicker than modern plastic hulls so when the mouths opened out into the forcing cone, pressures did rise substantially. With your almost 2 and 3/4 chamber, there should be no problem with modern loads with pressures for which the fine gun was made (so we don't start this fray again-everybody please read that last part twice)
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:44 am  Reply with quote
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TJC's second post appeared while I was typing. Since it's a later Utica gun, those are likely factory 2 and 3/4 chambers but odd that it is not so marked.
Read somewhere recently (don't you hate that 'somewhere' place) that the thought by the American SxS makers in the early 1900s was to make the chambers just shorter than the standard shell length and indeed my 1922 2 and 1/2" Trojan IS shorter than 2 and 1/2". BUT my 1926 12g Trojan marked 2 and 1/2" was actually (and proofed in England at some point) 2 and 5/8. Certainly alot of LCs had chambers just shorter than the standard shell length. Maybe related to the mood of the brl guy that day???
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