16ga.com ~ View topic - Remington Model 11 Sportsman 16 Gauge Questions??

Joined: 24 Jan 2005 Posts: 57 Location: Atlanta, Ga.

I have found a Remington Model 11 Sportsman 16 gauge at a store nearby. Like always, I should have stayed out of that gun store. Maybe it was fate. When I saw it on the rack, I knew it was not a Browning but had to check it out. It is a 1951 model and is in very good shape for the age. It appeared to have a 26' IMPROVED CYLINDER BARREL with a dial a choke on the end. It had the normal barrel slide wear but wood was good. It had a recoil pad mounted that was made by Hawkins. Has anyone heard of this? I saw a twelve on gunbroker that had the same pad. Was it common to see alot of dial a chokes on these old guns? I would have thought someone would not have tampered with an improved barrel. It is a vent barrel by the way.l I already have a 1988 Sweet Sixteen that is in beautiful shape that I bird hunt with but thought I could use the model 11 for my rabbit hunting and would not have to worry so much about the scratches. I know the model 11 does not have speed load nor magazine cut-off but is there any other differences? Was the model 11 16 gauge on its' own 16 frame or a 12 frame? I did not weight it but it felt heavier than my A5. I will return with my fish scale soon. The owner wanted $ 300.00 but I know him so I can get it for less. Opinions and advice appreciated. I would like to find an old Belgium Sweet Sixteen but I know at this price will not happen. stacyaeromed@yahoo.com

bb,
The Model 11 was made, I believe to hold only 3 shells. It was built on a 16 ga frame. If the choke device is a Cutts Compensator, it was probably installed at the factory, even though the barrel was stamped IC. If the choke device is a Poly or a Lyman, or some other, it was most likely an aftermarket installation.
XVI

Try to PM mod11rem. He headed for S. Tx friday but might be able to get your message.
The 'Sportsman' was a little cheaper model-11, sorta like the Express today.
Sounds like a neat gun though esp. with the factory vent rib and would make a great rainy day, falling in the mud gun.
Let us know how it works out.

Member Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 358 Location: Houston

I beg to differ on two points. According to the Rem web site ( http://www.remington.com/library/history/firearm_models/shotguns/sportsman.asp) the Sportsman was the "Improved 3-shot version of the Model 11 with a re-styled beavertail fore-end and decorations on the breech."[/url]

Maybe "improved" is Rem-speak for less-expensive, but I've never understood it that way Very Happy

. And the basic model 11 was not a 3-shot.

At one point, I had a bunch of Remington catalogs from the 50's and 60's and at least the wood appeared much different and the 'Sportsman' models of both the auto's and 870s were less expensive.

Member Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 358 Location: Houston

Well, you've got me there, revdoc. I've never seen the original pricing for either model, but I guess "improved" really IS Rem-speak for less-expensive. I love those marketing types.

The plot thickens! All those catalogs are long gone BUT I have a 1962 Gun Digest which lists the following:
ADL
Model 870- $102.25
Model 878- $133.75
Model 58 Sportsman- $139.95
Model 11-48- $127.95
Automaster-878- $118.25

No model 11 listed in 1962

I think you're probably correct about the Model 11 Sportsman and no doubt somebody over on gunshop.com could give us the answer.
I BELIEVE, but can't confirm, that in the late 60s or early 70s, the 'Sportsman' line was changed to an 'economy' model and have seen 870s from that era with 'hardwood' (likely birch) stocks.
Good job 662!
How about a little help out there?

Member Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 358 Location: Houston

This really does get confusing. For example, the Rem site calls the 878 the Automaster. Yet your list shows the 878 at one price and the Automaster 878 at a lower price. Only thing I can think of is that the 878 for $133 was the ADL model (your list doesn't make it clear what the "ADL" at the top should be attached to).

Regardless, very interesting to see these old prices.

And I suspect you're right about the shift to economy models in the 60's or 70's. The Remington site is very sketchy and leaves out little details like that sometimes. Another source of more complete info may be the forum at RSA.com (Rem Soc of America); I'll browse it when I get a chance.

Edit: The Sportsman (based on the 11) was discontinued in 1947. the 48 and 58 Sportsman models ran into the 60's, though. This could be the source of some confusion, also.

2nd Edit: There really wasn't a Sportsman line. The 3-shot versions of the Mod 11 and the 11-48 were called the Sportsman and the 48 Sportsman, respectively. Then along came the 58 Sportsman, which Rem called "Remington's first gas operated, autoloading shotgun without the Browning-type recoiling action." No mention that it's a 3-shot.

Well I did manage an internet connection down here in S. TX. The mod 11 16 is made on a 16 frame. To my knowledge, the "improved Rem 11" meant that it was a lighter weight gun that only holds 3 shells so you didn't have to plug it for migratory birds. I don't know, but I think that any price difference was minimal. They made the Sportsman in 20,16, and 12 ga. (I have one of all three). The regular Mod 11 also made in all 3 guages, held 5 shells. Most sportsmans had "Sportsman" stamped on the bolt. However, my 16 does not have this marking, my 20 and 12 do. the trade off for hunters of non migratory birds was 2 shells for about a half pound in carrying weight. That choke could have been added at the factory but I doubt it, they were usually add ons and I have never seen one with a vent rib. This was likely added also. I'm not sure. My 16 came with a 22" IC barrel and a 26" mod barrel. My uncle paid $75 for this gun with two barrels in 1947 or so and it was brand new then. My advice is to cut that ugly poly choke off and put a bead. That's what I did with my 20 ga. It's now about 23" cylinder bore. I'm sure all these barrels could be fitted with choke tubes. However, for quail or doves, this little twenty is excellent equipment. I saw a Mod 11 16 at a gun show this weekend in worse shape than any of mine for $350. They generally sell around $250-400 depending on condition. This one was a $200 gun. As for the compression ring, put the bevel toward the stock (away from barrel end) for light loads and opposite for heavy loads. It will shoot heavy loads when set for light ones but with added recoil. It will not cycle right when shooting light loads when set for heavy loads. keep her clean and she will last for ever. The only thing I have ever replaced on any of mine was a main spring on the 20. good shooting mod11rem