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Joined: 13 Feb 2010 Posts: 280 Location: Utah

I read Gough Thomas' "Gun Book" recently, and he mentioned the concept of a balanced load. In general terms, the larger the quarry, the larger the vital area, and the deeper penetration one needs. Using larger shot for, say, pheasants, makes sense this way. It appears the optimum size shot for them is 6s, or 5s, the 5s getting the nod from many authorites.

So, the question is, in a 1 ounce 16 gauge load, what is the optimum pellet size for the various birds we hunt? I ask because a buddy of mine was over today and said he thinks for late season chukars, which may flush wild, he likes 5s. It seems to me that 5s are a poor choice, and that 7s would give better pattern density at 40 yards, yet still have enough momentum to penetrate for clean kills.

Here in Utah, blue grouse and ruffed often inhabit the same terrain, yet blues can be twice the size of ruffs. So, 7s are pretty good for ruffs, but blues may be better hunted with 6s. Thoughts?

Some rules have changed since that book was authored.

Shot velocity was about maxed out at 1200 feet per second

Now with slower burning smokeless powder speeds of 1800 FPS have
been safely obtained in guns of modern design.

So 5s are OK for 1200 fps loads, and smaller shot sizes can be useful
for faster stuff.

Remember velocity vastly increases energy of the shot assembelage

Mike

I have had good success pheasant hunting with 1 oz. of #6 shot traveling at 1328 fps. but, I back up the load with 1 1/8 oz. of #5 1/2 shot traveling at 1325 fps.

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

ditto what Schulz just posted. I would add that #7 shot moving in the mid to upper 1300's is perfectly okay for ruffs or blues or chukars or huns!

Based on feedback here, I'm going to give the gamebore 7's a try this year for chukars and huns, mainly to increase pattern density at longer ranges without having to move up to a 1 1/8oz. load. They are fairly fast if I remember, at around 1250-1300fps. For phez though, I'm sticking to handloaded 6's at 1300 fps+.

Joined: 13 Feb 2010 Posts: 280 Location: Utah

I'm not such a fan of high velocity. As a buddy says, no bird will outrun 1165FPS. Wink

I plan to not exceed 1250-1300FPS for hunting, for a couple of reasons. First, KE doesn't kill birds, and the formula for KE squares the velocity. I think momentum gives you a better idea of penetration, which is just MV. Second, air resistance increases with the square of velocity, so higher muzzle velocity pellets scrub speed faster. So, 100FPS fster at the muzzle is not much at 40 yards.

I ask the question because I want to know what other guys think which pellet size best balances the contradictory properties of a given one ounce load for each species. I think 7s are about ideal for chukars, huns, probably ruffed grouse as well.

Joined: 09 Jul 2009 Posts: 510 Location: Central CT

My own ideas about pellet size/payload. US Lead shot sizes only.

3/4 oz. - #9, #8 1/2, #8 & #7 1/2

7/8 oz. - #9, #8 1/2, #8, #7 1/2 & #7

1 oz. - #7 1/2, #7 & #6

1 1/8 oz. - #7, #6 & #5

1 1/4 oz. - #5 & #4

Discussion of various shot sizes per load weight is interesting. Under 30 yards I do not think heavy loads are necessary, particularly for partridge size birds. For close range, I don't bother with premium loads or premium shells.

The test is that we tend to get carried away and shoot at pheasant, for example, that flush at 30-35 yards and are going away. Under those circumstances, I pick my shots and use 1-1/8 #5 in a 16 choked .031. That works.

If it counts, I've shot dozens and dozens of pen raised mature chukars while gunning dog events and training with live birds. 7/8 to 1 ounce of 7 or 7-1/2 shot work fine.

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2356 Location: West MI

I read an article a few years back pertaining to pellet count and pattern density/effectiveness (no holes big enough for anything the size of a shoe to get through). It stated that for the most evenly distributed ~30" patterns at killing distances that 300 pellets did the job. Through the years my experience at the pattern sheet and in the woods (both 20 & 16ga) has given me no reason to doubt that idea/study. That's why my go to (lead) for upland in the northern mid west is 16ga 1oz of NP #7. But also load 3/4 #8, 7/8 #7 1/2 & 1 1/4 #6 w/the focus on pellet count in the 300 range at 1200-1300fps. Then its a matter of matching pellet size & choke to the game at the distances it is moving out at that day; Woodies smaller shot, Snowshoes bigger shot, etc. That said I rarely if ever get a going away shot (any shot for that matter) at a WILD Phes brush busting transition cover around here but know that the 7's & 6's drop pen birds no sweat.

Hope this helps, good luck, Mike

Joined: 18 Dec 2010 Posts: 74

I have a 7/8 oz np 8's @ 1550 load - longshot - just because I could
- patterns 64% at 35 yds out of a skeet1 - so how would 7/8 of 7's do on roosters with this load over a flushing dog ?

will play around with a longshot load of 1 oz next
so a extra 100 fps is not much but how about a extra 300 - 400 fps
at some point vel matters - the age old rifle debate speed vs wt
if faster steel kills better faster lead kills better
every time I read 1125 is enough - the same person writes but steel needs to be faster more ft/lbs is more ft/lbs
don't understand it
Bill

Faster loads of small shot yields more dead in the air birds. 1350fps is the mark to be above, Faster is a Big Plus.
Only the pellets that strike the target count, all others. $ ------------------$

Little Ole Sweet Peaches. Has. Over. 4 K. IN DEAD BIRDS RETREIVED. She knows what works.

Everyone shoot what they want, that's the beauty of this thing called Freedom.

Peach mandates that I shoot high velocity. Above 1400fps and small shot. She is the boss. Who am I to tell her about her job.

Regards Nick

Peaches KNOWS , and CREAM AGREES !

"If it counts, I've shot dozens and dozens of pen raised mature chukars while gunning dog events and training with live birds. 7/8 to 1 ounce of 7 or 7-1/2 shot work fine."

In my experience, wild chukars are as different to pen raised birds as pen raised pheasants are to wild ones. A wild chukar covey exploding off a rock cliff at 30-40 yds. vs. a pen raised chukar at 15 yds is a world of difference. Wild chukars flush farther, faster, and seem tougher and hardier. Big difference imo.

Joined: 10 Aug 2009 Posts: 178 Location: New York

OK by now I know better than to take sides in the velocity/payload/pellet size debate but I'm curious: if I wanted to experiment with small shot/high velocity what factory loads would I even start with? I don't currently reload and after a quick search I'm not seeing many factory loads out there over 1300fps (although there are quite a few at or just under) Any suggestions? Along those lines are there any factory loaded 7s out there that I'm not aware of?

New Era Ammunition has what your looking for .

Regards , Nick