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< 16ga. Guns ~ Sweet Sixteen identification help |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:16 am
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Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 358
Location: Houston
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I'm still in the 3-day inspection period for a Sweet Sixteen I just picked up off the internet. Good price for the condition, but I can't make sense of the serial number. The seller said the gun was made in 1957, but the info at the link that revdoc posted a few days ago doesn't match this gun.
http://www.browning.com/services/dategun/detail.asp?id=13
Serial number is A593--barrel and receiver.
For 1957 it should be in the G23001-85000 range.
In 1940-46, Rem took over manufacture, and the 16ga had an A prefix, but the numbers were in the 229,000 to 237000 range. And this gun is marked FN all over. Also, ser no is in wrong place for a Rem gun.
Anybody got any ideas? Is this a lemon or a jewel or somewhere in between? |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:34 am
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Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 2016
Location: Glendale, AZ
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The Madis 'Browning Dates of Manufacture' book says the same thing and 'A' is not listed as a model code. I'm clueless and as painful as it is to say, you made need to post over on gunshop.com
Do let us know what you find out. |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:51 am
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Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 358
Location: Houston
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All I see over there is the Doublegun BBS. Is there another forum more suitable?
Edit: I think I've solved it. Over here https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/Firearm/Serialize.pdf Blue Book Inc points out that in 1957-58, Browning changed their prefix to an A for Sweet Sixteen and the numbers ranged from 1-10900. That would make mine a 1957!
This would make invalid the statement I've seen elsewhere that if the serial doesn't start with an S, it's not a Sweet Sixteen.
P.S. Revdoc--that link is an other good source to add to your list. |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:16 am
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Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 2016
Location: Glendale, AZ
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Problem solved . Thanks and good work |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:08 pm
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Member
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 295
Location: Jackson, Mississippi
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662 wrote: |
Edit: I think I've solved it. Over here https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/Firearm/Serialize.pdf Blue Book Inc points out that in 1957-58, Browning changed their prefix to an A for Sweet Sixteen and the numbers ranged from 1-10900. That would make mine a 1957!
This would make invalid the statement I've seen elsewhere that if the serial doesn't start with an S, it's not a Sweet Sixteen.
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Looking at the newest edition of the bluebook (27th) which I just picked up on Saturday at the bookstore, you solved it. Here is exactly what it says...
"1957-58 Prefix "T" for Standardweight and Prefix "A" for Sweet 16 numbers mixed, but range from 1-10900."
Great detective work on your part and a fascinating little bit of history for your gun. Might be worth photocopying that little page in case you ever want to sell the gun down the road to prove that it is indeed a Sweet 16.
Cheers,
Brad |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:38 pm
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Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 358
Location: Houston
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Thanks for the confirmation, Brad. Good idea about keeping that documentation, too. That could eliminate some hassle in the future. |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:26 pm
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Member
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 295
Location: Jackson, Mississippi
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662 wrote: |
Thanks for the confirmation, Brad. Good idea about keeping that documentation, too. That could eliminate some hassle in the future.
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Not a problem, I keep the Bluebook handy on the shelf and when I came across this thread I thought I would look it up.
If you want to photocopy that page its pg. 1945 of the 27th Edition of "Blue Book of Gun Values", ISBN# 1886768625 by Fjestad. Although a printout of the bluebook website serialization page might work just as well.
As (ahem cough, cough) authoritative as this forum might be, I don't think a print out of this thread would work, especially with old DocDrew thrown in for fodder admitting cluelessness. *GRIN*
Congrats on a very nice gun and a very nice find. I hope you got a good deal on it and it fits you well.
Cheers,
Brad |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:15 pm
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Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 2016
Location: Glendale, AZ
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Clueless-guilty. Old-now we got somethin' to fight about (BTW: My Baptist preacher grandfather lived to 107 so I got about 1/2 a life still to figure out what I'm gonna do ) |
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Posted:
Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:15 am
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Member
Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 191
Location: Western Connecticut
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I found some information that will help, re: your Sweet 16, s/n A-593
Again, and I'm going to have to create a macro for this, this is found and quoted from :
BROWNING AUTO-5 SHOTGUNS, THE BELGIAN FN PRODUCTION, by H.M. Shirley, Jr., and Anthony Vanderlinden, 2003, Wet Dog Publications
page 76, quote:
"THE 'A' Serial Number Series
Please note that there were two production runs that used an 'A' prefix, and that there is no way to determine whether the gun in question was produced during this first or second production run. This prefix does not disitnguish between 16 Standard and Sweet Sixteen production.
Ending Serial Number Date in Warehouse
A-01 thru A-958 9/15/53 thru 11/4/54*
*Serial number A-01 was accepted in the FN Warehouse September 19, 1953.
By November 4, 1953, a total of 958 had been produced and all shipped to Browning. It appears to be an interim seral number prefix between the X-99999 series and the upcoming 'S' and 'R' series. "
end of quote.
There are 5 or 6 pages describing the determination if your gun is indeed a Sweet Sixteen.
Essentially it states that the receiver is engraved "Sweet Sixteen" on the upper left side, it has a gold trigger, the buttstock is milled out to reduce weight, and the barrel ring has 3 holes bored in it to also reduce weight.
If you have any standing interest in the Browing Auto-5 story, you need to get this book.
Anthony's website is:
www.WetDogPublications.com
Enjoy your A-5!
-David |
_________________ .....SQUIRREL, the OTHER dark meat..... |
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Posted:
Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:08 am
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Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 358
Location: Houston
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Ofhand--thanks for the additional ( and newly confusing ) information. By the criteria you mentioned, this is clearly a Sweet Sixteen. Only question now is: what year? Not sure it matters a whole lot, but it's fun trying to piece the story of the gun together. (Just when I thought I had it nailed down . . )
Brad--Yes, the gun feels great and can't wait to get it to the range. The wood is not pristine, but everything else is great, esp the bore. No VR, but that's never bothered me--I love a good gun from the 50's (Wingmaster, 11-48, etc), and the money was much less than I see on Gunbroker and Gunsamerica with or without VR. In fact, I was expecting to find some serious flaw, but haven't.
One other qeustion: Does anybody know what the FN butt plates were made of? I ask because mine has a few small holes that look like the work of bugs, and I thought maybe it's a horn butt plate? |
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Posted:
Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:29 am
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Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 311
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662,
My short chambered A5 16 has a horn buttplate. I am not really a Browning expert but I would expect yours has horn as well.
I can really hit with my A5 but I have never gotten used to the barrel returning to battery! |
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Posted:
Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:49 am
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Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 358
Location: Houston
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Yeah, I bet mine is probably horn too, then. I got used to the recoiling barrel with my 11-48! It is fun. |
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Posted:
Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:46 pm
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Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 76
Location: western canada
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You guys are good!!! Perhaps you could help me with this build date. Gun is a Sweet Sixteen ( engraving on reciever, gold trigger etc ) and has a serial number of 7S 70205. An S70205 denotes a 1956 model. What exactly is the 7 at the begining of the number for? Should denote 1967 model when Sweet Sixteens were no longer in manufacture. I bought the gun from the original owner who has a memory like mine, but he is pretty darn confident he bought it during the fifties.
Regards
John |
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Posted:
Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:23 pm
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Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 358
Location: Houston
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Well, as I read the Blue Book Serialization list, 7S was the prefix for 1967 Sweet Sixteens. The SS was made in '67, the standard 16 ga A5 was not.
But Offhand's book may have something more on the matter . . . |
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Posted:
Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:04 pm
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Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 76
Location: western canada
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662
I do believe you are right. Upon closer examination of my copy of the book which has suffered coffee stains, gun oil and other abuses, I find 7 denotes a 1967 Sweet Sixteen. Appears that the memory of my friend is as bad as my eyesight. As I said, you boys are good. Thanks
Regards
John |
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