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saw557
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:45 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 59

Not be beating a dead horse or anything but I was at Cabela's in Rogers,mn a couple of days ago and asked about the "new" run of Citori 16ga. the salesmen looked at me like I was an idiot and then grabbed the catalog. I explained to him about the rumor that they were gong to make another run of them for bill Hicks and he said if that was the case they could get them. I guess the question I have is are they really going to get built or not. Does anyone have anything more substantial to go on?
Scott
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KyBrad16ga
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:20 pm  Reply with quote
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saw557 wrote:
Not be beating a dead horse or anything but I was at Cabela's in Rogers,mn a couple of days ago and asked about the "new" run of Citori 16ga. the salesmen looked at me like I was an idiot and then grabbed the catalog. I explained to him about the rumor that they were gong to make another run of them for bill Hicks and he said if that was the case they could get them. I guess the question I have is are they really going to get built or not. Does anyone have anything more substantial to go on?
Scott


Scott

Not that I buy all of the hype that Bill Hanus spouts on his website, but the man does love 16's so I give him the benefit of the doubt. However, he has good information and is generally pretty current. If he would just come down on his prices a little, ... nevermind, that's another dead horse.

Anyway, going to his site, I found a small update on the new Browning 16's production. I will put it here in quotes and a link to the right page. Hanus says,

Quote:
16 Gauge Browning Citoris are made in Japanese factories. Japan is a major holder of U.S. Treasury debt, and they are willing to trade employment of their skilled workforce in exchange for weak dollars. The net result is that we are the beneficiaries of very favorable pricing on the current 16 gauge run. Half the models offered are priced under $2,000. This compares with other quality 16 gauge over/unders from B. Rizzini at $6,500 and Merkel at $7,200. These 16 gauge Browning Citori's are the best value in the shotgun marketplace today. You are getting a name brand in Browning and high quality Japanese workmanship. The best of both worlds.

I enhance the value of your purchase by including a set of Briley Skeet chokes with every 16 gauge Browning I sell. This gives you the open choke options you need for any of the clay target games, or shooting over close-working dogs. I include bottles of Clenzoil and Choke Tube Lube to extend the useful life of your investment.

A $500 deposit will hold your choice of model and barrel length. Indications are that deliveries might start earlier than anticipated -- perhaps as soon a June or July!


http://www.billhanusbirdguns.com/pagetwo.html

(Although as an economist I should note that he has it BACKWARD... MacroEconomics 101, in short, a weak dollar would mean a strong yen and more cost of production in Japan and less buying power for U.S. consumers. A strong dollar versus a weak yen would equate to the situation that he describes. *SIGH* Well the man is a shotgun importer not an economist, but I had sorta hoped he would understand it a little better than that.)

So it sounds like the first guns of the new run are not expected until June or July at the absolute earliest.

Hope that helps,

Brad
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nossman
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:54 pm  Reply with quote
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I called Browning about this very subject yesterday. I was informed that they are being produced for Bill Hicks & Co. I called Bill Hicks & Co. today and was informed that they do have the exclusive on the 16ga models being produced this year. They are expected to be available in the October/November time frame. Any FFL can order from Bill Hicks & Co. Just tell your FFL to call them at 800/223-0702
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:50 am  Reply with quote
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Brad wrote, "(Although as an economist I should note that he has it BACKWARD... MacroEconomics 101, in short, a weak dollar would mean a strong yen and more cost of production in Japan and less buying power for U.S. consumers. A strong dollar versus a weak yen would equate to the situation that he describes. *SIGH* Well the man is a shotgun importer not an economist, but I had sorta hoped he would understand it a little better than that.)

So it sounds like the first guns of the new run are not expected until June or July at the absolute earliest.

Hope that helps,

Brad"

Geez Brad, what part of his BS are you having trouble with? Laughing
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KyBrad16ga
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:28 am  Reply with quote
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16gaugeguy wrote:
Geez Brad, what part of his BS are you having trouble with? Laughing


Well, it's just funny that he is attempting to use monetary policy/global relative exchange rates to explain the ratio of relative value of guns versus the price of the guns, more specifically HIS pricing of the guns. The better the value to price ratio, the better "deal" it is to the consumer, and more specifically arguing that his Browning prices are a good "deal" because of the high value to cost ratio.

What he is trying to say (if I understand it right) is that due to the fact that the US has a strong dollar against the japanese yen (although he says it the other way around), the value to cost/price ratio of the Brownings being priced at around $2000 is much higher than it is for the European 16ga o/u guns like the Merkels or B. Rizzini's being around $6 to $7000. The flip side of his economic argument (that he fails to make, but implies) would be that relative to the Euro, the dollar is very weak, thus driving up production costs in Europe and driving down U.S. consumer purchasing power of EU goods, like the European O/U's. So, Hanus would conclude that this is hurting the value to cost ratio of the European guns compared to the Japanese guns, thus making the Brownings a better value because of the monetary situation.

As for critique? Where to start... LOL, seriously the biggest problem (other than the fact that he doesn't understand monetary policy or macroeconomics at all) is not having equivalent goods or commodities being traded. The only way to discuss the effect of monetary policy on trade is to be comparing apples to apples, i.e. that the SAME goods are traded between all trading partners. He is comparing apples to oranges in comparing the Brownings to Merkels and B. Rizzinis. If Brownings were still made in Belgium using the same processes that they use in Japan and were more $, then Hanus would have a point.

It's a pretty weak attempt to make the Brownings look like much better values due to monetary policy. If I remember right, haven't the prices on the Brownings gone sharply up since the last production run in 2004? If inflation has been mostly stable, whats the explanation for that other than a price increase by the middle guys since he has already told us that the production costs in Japan have declined because of the strong dollar to yen ratio. Makes one think doesn't it?

OK, I will get off my Economics soapbox, but I do get annoyed when people demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of economic policy.

Oh well,

Brad
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:18 am  Reply with quote
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Well, I'd have to guess what you just said is the long version of:
~Hanus is full of what makes grass green!~ Laughing Now that is a prime example of Voo Doo economics. Laughing

As for comparing Brownings to Rizzinis, apples to lemons might be closer to the mark from what I've seen lately. Rolling Eyes

Anyway, I think what old Crazy Bill is shooting for is to stampede the more froggy among us to fork over a large down payment on guns he's not even got yet. That would also explain the 5 month discrepancy between his delivery date in June to Bill Hicks's delivery date in Nov. which will be too late for this year's hunting season for most of us.

Next trick he'll probably pull will be to don a Santa cap and starty hawking Christmas guns. Ho! HO! Horse Hockies! Cool
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Black&Tan
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:36 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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[quote="16gaugeguy"]Well, I'd have to guess what you just said is the long version of:
~Hanus is full of what makes grass green!~ Laughing Now that is a prime example of Voo Doo economics. Laughing

I'm glad to see that Bill Hanus has not changed! Laughing
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Flytier
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:38 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
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Well said, Brad. Well said.

There is nothing like a quick explanation from someone who knows just a enough about accounting, finance or economics to be dangerous. I wouldn't let Hanus work on my taxes either.

flytier
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hunshatt
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:09 am  Reply with quote
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Brad I'm kinda retarded, so the only real thing I got out of it was the analogy where you compared the pheasent killin laser beam Merkel, to the hyundi like Browning and thier insentric values. I think, and I maybe parphrasing but what I thought you said was chocolate covered strawberrys(the merkel) are worth more than dried out juju beans(Brownings) , well all I can say is Duuuuuuuuh, don't take a global economist to figure that one out.


Thudddddddddddddd
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:20 am  Reply with quote
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Well now Thudddd, I'd go easy there on the Brownings. Just remember your words when the shooting is done. Could be the indian and not the arrow is what does the shooting. Could be that one of those ole Citori junkers might make that "chocolate covered strawberry" kinda look more like a "dukie covered puckerberry" once the smoke clears and the clays are all on the ground, some in pieces and some not. Wink Laughing
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hunshatt
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:31 am  Reply with quote
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16gg(see I din't do the other thing) You got a good recepit for clays?? we be talking about pheasent killin laser beams , not clay killin laser beams......
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:03 am  Reply with quote
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I appreciate that Thudddd. But just remember, feathers or not, if it flies, it dies. Its still the Indian and not the arrow cause youse gotta hit 'em to git 'em. Those 'ole sissytoris hits 'em pretty often and pretty hard in the hands of the right Indian. Wink Cool
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hunshatt
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:12 pm  Reply with quote
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16gg, just getting back from a 4 martini, fri lunch, so if the tone in my reply is less then cordial, please xcuse it. delete delete delet delet.

Nasty pm on it's way. LOL
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:31 pm  Reply with quote
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Yup. Been there, done that. Its probably the reason I don't have much to spare, if any, in the spare brain cell department. So it was good bye booze or hello dain bramage! A lot of folks figure I was about a day late and a dollar short anyway. Laughing You take it easy there pard. If you got to, latch on to something solid and don't fall off the face of the planet Wink I did it once. I was gone for a week or more. Rolling Eyes In fact, I even once reached the ultimate state of imbibedness, I was invisible. Shocked
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saw557
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:44 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2005
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Not getten froggy or nothin but I was at a local dealer this sfternoon and drug his chain about Browning making a run for Bill Hicks so he picked up the phone . And the answer he got was YES Browning is making a run of 16ga citori's in several deifferent models for Hicks. No delivery date but they will take your money Duh! The price they gave me on the two models I questioned them about are $1700 for a 525 Field and $1450 for a White Lighting both 28" barrels. This is the most concrete info I've found so far....maybe there is a god
Scott
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