16ga.com ~ View topic

*Last edited by brdhnt on Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:15 pm; edited 3 times in total*

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MAGIC FLIGHT LAUNCH BOX REVIEW

Whats heavy shot do to old guns?? I thought that and bizmuth were ok.. Please enlighten me .
thanks
Tim

Tim,
The heavy shot is harder and heavier than steel and lacks the lubricity of Bismuth and the out come is the same as steel. Tungsten matrix and Bismuth on the other hand are softer and are among the most suitable for older shotguns. (IMHO)I had always thought the bridging of the larger shot in a full choked barrel was the worst problem. This last month in Bozeman, Montana I listened to a fellow having his Browning (full-mod) O/U sent away for a new barrel set. He had been using heavy shot. The full choke barrel was split. I am sure we will find one of our resident ammo guys will come along soon with a more technical explanation. My little knowledge says if the shotgun isn't made for steel shot it gets lead or Bismuth.
Best,
Ron

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

My buddies and I have used Hevi-shot for the last 3 years in 12 gauges in South Dakota and here in Indiana for ducks and geese. In the 16 ga. I have only used Bismuth due to unavailability of the Hevi-shot for the 16. But in 12 gauge, both 2 3/4" and 3", the 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 oz. of #4, #5 or #6 Hevi-shot just knocks the ducks dead. For geese the #2 and BB shot does the same thing. We were surprised and pleased---yes, it is expensive but A.) We don't like to lose cripples B.) We already spend a lot for the time, guns and dogs...why skimp on the ammo and C.) It just hits like the hammers of Hell....

I'd love to see them come out with a 1 1/8 oz. load of #5 and/or #6 in Hevi-Shot for the 16 ga. That would be a potent pheasant load indeed in my opinion.

One of the low life philistines who shoots a 12g. SBE in S. Dakota with me used hevi-shot pheasant hunting along the Mo. river where non-toxic is required. Same opinion as Wolfchief, birds dead in the air and hit harder than the Federal 1 and 1/4 Wing Shok 4s he used in S Dakota (which were also very impressive loads)
Important point though-what % of 16s out there are steel shot compatible? All the Citoris? Certainly wouldn't use hevi-shot in my Sterly or M-12.

I'll drop a note to gsi, about the laser beam. Hadn't thought about that being a issue.
Thanks
Tim

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

Rev: I think the Citori's and Japanese A-5's would be Hevi-Shot compatible, along with the Remington 870's and 1100's made just recently in the last two or 3 years in 16 ga. I wouldn't use Hevi-Shot in my Model 12's or 1620 Merkel; best I think to stick with Bismuth in those.
I don't know about the M-37 or Berettas.

*Last edited by brdhnt on Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:15 pm; edited 1 time in total*

Steel and HEVI-shot should never be used in pre WW II manufactured guns. These guns usually have much tighter chokes than newer guns and the thick wads and the fact that steel and heavy shot do not compress when traveling through the choke like lead does may cause damage to the choke.

The old saying is if it is full choke gun, it should not be used with steel or heavy shot is very true but my experience in testing lots of guns with steel loads over the last 20+ years is that even some older modified choke guns will shoot VERY tight full choke patterns and there is the possibility of some choke damage.

Any Remington 1100 or 870 (old or new) should be comparable with steel or HEVI-Shot, post war A-5's or Model 12's, Remington 11-48's and 58's, Ithaca 37's and most modern doubles. With the Merkels, I would contact Merkel and find out if they recommend using steel in your particular gun.
The new Citoris should be steel shot/HEVI-shot compatible.

I have used steel and some Hevi-Shot handloads in my newer (2000 manufacture) Model 37 and two older Remington 11-48's. The 37 has choke tubes and one 11-48 is IC and the other is modified. The IC 11-48 gives improved modified patterns with steel and the other gives tight full choke patterns. In the Model 37 I use either a cylinder or skeet 1 (.005) tube and get tight IC and light modified patterns.

The ammo companies have spent millions of dollars developing and testing steel and the variations. Unfortunately the laws of physics can't be changed and any non-toxic load will usually shoot at least one degree ( and usually two degrees) tighter patterns through a given choke and the lack of compressability may damage some older guns with thinner walled barrels and chokes.

I have seen some very impressive performances with HEVI-Shot in the field on waterfowl and upland birds. I had a chance to shoot mallards in Arkansas a couple of years ago. Shots were at 35 yards or less. We were shooting 20 gauge O/U's choked skeet and IC and skeet 1 and skeet II. We used 1 ounce loads of HEVI-Shot in 7 1/2's and didn't lose a bird in four days and had very few cripples.

I would love a one ounce load of HEVI-Shot in 7 1/2's or even 8's and a 1 1/8th ounce load in 5's and 6's in the 16 and I let Kelly know that.

We have a company willing to listen to us for new 16 gauge loadings. Let's quit dickering about whether we will use it or not and get it out there for ALL 16 gauge shooters and keep our gauge of preference in the forefront.

TB
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Headshop

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

I agree with everything Brdhnt says except please don't use steel or Hevi-Shot in any Model 12 you care about, post-war or not....

Member Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 450 Location: Indiana

As far as I'm concerned Bismuth shot should be taken off the market. It a big joke. I used it one time when all these do gooders decided that lead was killing our waterfoul from bottom feeding was a bunch of BS and it was proven. I was using 12ga on ducks and geese then. First time I used Bismuth was on ducks comming off water towards me over head at about 15 to 20 feet. I fired and could hear the shot hit the birds and they started to fold then regained their senses and away they went. I stayed to bring in some more from a call to decoys. When a flock came in I opened up and wounded three. The dog got two and the third got away. That was when I said the hell with this inhumane bullshit and threw the rest of the shell out in the swamp. I'll never use it again. I use lead and I know it is against the rules set up by a bunch of know nothings idots and big business. If I was going to use something different it would be Hevi-shot because know more than a person is going to shoot in a season it will not bother the barrel if it has been made after 1950.
Their is more harm comes from the residue of the fumes of the spent primer to the human than their is buckshot stuck up some birds ass.
This is a prove fact but the politations bend to the loudest voice and we as hunters let our guard down. Be ready for the next time.

Sorry but I get wired up on this stuff.

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

Old16, buddy, you better take a nitro or you'll have a heart attack.....then I can't shoot skeet with you like we did today when we had so much fun.....

KENT MAKES A REAL NICE PHEASANT/DUCK LOAD 1 1/16 OZ TUNGSTEN #5 AT 1315 FPS. IT KILLS DUCKS I'LL TELL YOU THAT.

Member Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 120 Location: FL

Thanks for the info Brdhnt, I shot off an email to her with my wish list and thanked her for letting the bosses know we're interested.
Chris

I just talked to GSI about the Merkel's compatibility with steel and they told me that the Merkels are compatible. So they should work with all shot.

Hc

Thanks for checkin, I'd forgot.