16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 16 Nov 2010 Posts: 34 Location: Alberta

Hi All !

This is a new load for me so thought I better check with some of you that have be loading a lot longer that I.

I found the following loads on the Hodgson site and have loaded 5 of the slower formula, but have used the BPI SG16 wad. They look good, just want to confirm that I am correct in saying the BPG/BP wad, as listed on the Hodgson Site, is the same as the BPI SG 16. I felt fairly confortable doing this since SPR 310's Spread sheet and the Ballistic Products Manual Ed 6. list the following load with the BPI SG 16 wad. Is it just me or are these wad names a little confusing? Thanks, Dave.

Lead Shot 16 1 oz. Universal Fed. 209A BPG/BP 22 8,200 PSI 1220
Lead Shot 16 1 oz. Universal Fed. 209A BPG/BP 23.5 9,200 PSI 1275

*Last edited by Dogchaser37 on Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:16 pm; edited 1 time in total*

The SG16 is a wad made by Gualandi, Hodgdon lists it as BP/SPTG16

The BP is a wad made by Baschieri & Pellagri. BPI calls it Trap Commander or some such nonsense. Hodgdon lists it as BP G/BP

Most like the Gualandi wad a bit better than the B & P wad but both are good wads.

The loads you have posted are the B & P wad.

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

The BPI/BP wad is the Z-16 wad. Back in the 96 Hodgdons reloading manual they listed the load with the SG-16 wad. In 2010 on Hodgdons site they changed to the Z-16 wad. The Sg-16 wad usually lists lower pressure. I don't know why they changed, but I tried to list both options where possible. Bpi also lists the 22 grain load with both wads. You can keep using the SG-16 wad with no problems.

Yup it is confusing and BPI likes it that way.

spr310 kinda likes BPI, I kinda hate them, because they just confuse folks, most of the time. All the other retailers list the wads by their manufacturers name. Then Hodgdon comes along and muddies things up even more. Also in the Hodgdon data they show an Activ G-28 wad, well that is the exact same wad as the Gualandi SG-16. Do I have you spun around yet?

spr310 gave you good advice. Have fun.

Joined: 16 Nov 2010 Posts: 34 Location: Alberta

I will have to write this down and keep it close to my loading bench. Let me give this some thought and let it all soak in. I might be back with a question or two when I am more awake. Confused

Bottom line, it looks like it is a safe load. Thanks again for your wisdom! dave.

Joined: 16 Sep 2006 Posts: 334

I'm w/ uggy on this one. Too early yet to let it sink in. Printing the whole thread to look at later when I'm awake.

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

I guess I'll defend BPI a little. They are in Minnesota for one. When I lived in Southern Minnesota I frequented two companies. Ahlmans in Morristown and BPI. Bpi is one company that did not desert the 16 gauge. Yes they use their own designation for the Gualandi and B&P wads. But if you will notice, Hodgdons has used BPI's nomenclature for the wads also.
Yes some of their loads were suspect. I myself had some tested and they were way over pressure. BPI has now switched to the newer system for testing loads. A lot of their old loads have been dropped from the manuals. If you look and examine their loads to Hodgdons you will see they do not differ that much.
Also for anybody new to reloading, their new Advantages manual is a good one to have along side of Lymans 5th. Beside the loads they go into a good explanation of reloading. The other gauges are mostly devoted to their wads, but in the 16 gauge you can get the wads at just about any reloading supplier, weather it be the Gualandi wad, the B&p wads or even card wads for stacked loads.
They also now are carrying some 2 1/2" loads for the 16 gauge and some non-toxic loads.
What other company is trying to support the 16 gauge as they are?
Also for the record, Dogchaser and I are friends and I email him for support on loads I am working on. Right now I'm concentrating on 12 gauge Buffered loads.

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

my finger hit the wrong key as you probably figured out. I changed it now. I know, it's easier to make a little cute remark rather then just pointing out i made a booboo. But , then you probably think I know of some 16 gauges made for the 3 1/2" shell.

Member Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Posts: 321 Location: So Cal

I haven't tried the B&P wads myself but I did do some substitution based on what "was supposed to work out fine". I posted the comments below last year:

Finding out which wad works best with which hulls, powder and primer combinations can be fun and quite useful. But be sure to experiment with only tested and published data from reliable sources, not someone's word (unless you really know and trust that someone).

I was reminded of this a few years ago when someone at the range told me that substituting the BPI/Gualandi Sporting 16 wad would "work just fine" for the B&P wads listed in some published data for the Rem Game Load hulls. WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

Not knowing what their real differences were back then I made up several boxes (again, another mistake) and happily went to the range with them. After firing only 2 shells I stopped shooting because these loads were HOT, HOT, HOT! I mean how often do the hulls you take out from your gun almost burn your hand? I'm just glad that I was using my Win21 with its strengths.

I opened up all the crimps to salvage the shot, but ended up firing all the shells to blow out the wads. (Trying to pull them out and salvage them was not working very well as the tabs would tear off.) So I was able to salvage all the hulls and did not blow up my gun - but my ego was definitely shattered. Some lessons are learned by your own mistakes, others by the mistakes of someone else.

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

Gil. I probably don't know anymore about reloading then you do. If you had seen some of the things that my brother and I did years ago you would be afraid to be close when we fired of a shotgun.
The main lesson I learned is to read all the material a person can and to stick to listed loads or get your own loads tested. That is all I'm trying to do by posting spreadsheets on the web. Don't do what I did.

Joined: 16 Nov 2010 Posts: 34 Location: Alberta

The load I am working on is the Federal, 22 gr Universal, Fed 209A, SG16wad... which are crimping really nice by the way. I found the load in the BPI EDition 6 on page 44. SPR 310 has the same load on his "handy-dandy" spread sheet; perfect. So, being a bit of a perfectionist I see that SPR310 references Hodgen 96 so I go online to the hodgson data site and I find the same load but with the BPG/Bp wad (Z16).... ooops different wad. So I check with my brother by email, who has the 2006 Hodson maunual. The 2006 manual, once again, lists this load with the BPG.BP wad or Z16. Difffernt wad, all other components the same, same pressure, same speed. Is that possible or am I missing something... which is entiriely possible. Smile

Thanks dave.

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

I don't know why Hodgdons changed their listing.
Here is the load using the Z-16 wad
Fed hull, Fed209A primer Z-16 wad, 22 grains universal, 1oz shot 10,400psi, 1330 fps. Don't know hat days the loads were tested, what lot number of powder. looking through the loads though, most of the loads with the Z-16 wad show an increase in pressure. I don't have Hodgdons 1996 book now.I had the 1998 manual but can't find it now, may be out in my shed or given to Goodwill. I did give some of my old manuals to a friend of mine who reloads for the 12 gauge. If you look at Hodgdons 1 1/8oz Fed loads using longshot you can see how they list the SG-16 wad.BPSPT/G16. I think I will make a call to Hodgdons and see why the changes were made.
It could be that they have made an error in their listings as the SG-16 wad is a 1oz wad and the Z-16(trap commander) is a 1 1/8oz wad. Like I said, stick with the G-16 and you will be okay.

Joined: 16 Nov 2010 Posts: 34 Location: Alberta

Thanks SPR310. It would be interesting to hear what Hodgson says to you. FYI: I called them last week (Ron Reiber ext 113) but they told me to phone Ballistic Products?!?!. Maybe I wasn't clear enough when asking my question. There current data site 1 0z loads seem to be for a Z17 wad (BPG/BP) but they look identicial to a SG16 load in the BP manual and a couple that you have listed with SG 16 wads (22 and 23.5 gr) that are referenced as Hodgson 96 on your spread sheet. All other components seem the same ; Federal hull, universal powder, Fed 209A, Same speed, same press as far as I can tell. I only have the SG16 wad. Good Luck. dave.