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nossman
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 3:53 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Southern Oregon

He's an unaltered Brittany, and will be 1yr at the end of this month. He's birdy as all get out, just not the best on the retrieve. We've done some training during the winter and got in a couple of short Chuker hunts, at the local preserve. He's doing well, just need to keep working on the retrieves. I play fetch with him with a ball in the house and yard. He's good for a few retrieves with the ball, and I can usually get a couple more by using a small treat. I try to keep it fun. He's just a little more interested in working the yard, or field. How can I increase his desire to retrieve? Also, anyone have much experience with the DeadFowl Trainers, and are they worth the money?
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 4:04 pm  Reply with quote
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Birds, birds, and more birds brother-but some dogs are into retrieving and some are not. Oh-and try using a Sterly so your pup has something to retrieve after the 'boom' Laughing
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Wolfchief
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 4:05 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Oct 2004
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Location: Indiana

nossman: In my experience, you can't teach desire; they either have it or they don't. But an experienced trainer may be able to bring out all the desire the dog has. At one year old, there is still time to make improvement. You certainly have the right idea in working the dog on live birds such as chukars, etc.
In 1990 when I got my first Golden, a farmer friend and I decided we would pay a local man a nominal sum to raise some pheasants, which we used over the course of the fall to train his dog and mine. Shooting the birds, and coaching the retrieves, really paid off. A good Golden loves to retrieve and the more you can shoot birds and throw the dummy for retrieves the more you reinforce this action.
My present Golden is 3 years old, and we have had the blessed fortune to shoot at least 120 wild pheasants, and probably half that many mallards, teal and woodies, over him in that time. He gets better every year....

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driggy
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 5:22 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Aug 2005
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Location: Omaha

Praise , Praise , and more praise. Treat the dog like it just did the best thing in the world. Dogs love to please and receive acknowledgement of doing good. I don't mean food either. Get the book "Gundog" and you will get more ideas.
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mrosspa
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 7:08 pm  Reply with quote
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Nossman:

I'm not sure I understand. Since he is birdy, does he want to retrieve but lose intrest quickly, or does he not drive to the bird?

Is distance an issue?
Is terrain change or cover an issue?

Is he being asked to do too much to soon, and does he need smaller steps?

I agree with what has be said before by the others.

The answer to most problems are usually pretty simple, but it isn't clear to me. Then again, maybe I'm too dense to understand your question.

Dead bird throwers can work well depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

Michael
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John Molnar
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 9:24 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Maryland

Hi,
I am new to all of this dog training. I have a 13 month old Chesapeake Bay Retriever. He has 2 legs of his JR hunt tests. I work real hard and smart with him. I am lucky enough to train with one of the best Amateur CBR trainers in the Mid-Atlantic regions..Tim has an All Age Qualified Field Trail CBR that is 5 years old and never has seen a Pro. With his 35 years of experience he will tell you that a dog has 5 or six good retrieves a day in him...

I try to do something each day with Red. It could be 5 single retrieves or just 5 lining drills on different days.


Never wear him down with retrieves 4 or 5 IS ENOUGH. Keep him wanting more. If 2 is it, then 2 is it.

Let it be fun for the pup.

If you want to get serious with this then I strongly recommend Force Fetch your pup. PLEASE find someone that knows what there doing. Warning; IT WILL get ugly...
Tim's forearms look like he has been in knife fights. BTW this guy is a surgeon.

One of my hunting partners had a Brittany. Thor did it all... Good luck...
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mrosspa
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 11:41 pm  Reply with quote
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Hey John, those are good points. A dog's performance as a retriever will improve once he completes force fetching. If Nossman has someone knowledgable he can be helped when there is a question. A dog club or local pro is a great asset.

The reason I asked so many questions is that it isn't clear what the dog is doing.

Is the problem when the dog goes to the mark?
Is the problem picking up the mark?
Or maybe the dog has the bird in his mouth and won't recall. As my dog showed me, he had a bird in his mouth and was full of beans.

Michael
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nossman
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 1:43 am  Reply with quote
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Thanks for the replies. Your comments have led me to step back and re-evaluate my situation.

First, let me say that my dog (Rusty) is on birds like a fat kid on a cup cake! Finding, pointing out birds, and the occasional flush, is NOT a problem.


After giving the current situation more thought, it's not really a basic retrieving problem at all. I mean that in the house, I can play fetch with him and get good consistant retrieves. This is of course using his favorite toy (soft rubber squeaky ball). I always give lots of praise and keep it fun. What I have noticed to be a problem, is outside, using a different object, and usually in the afternoon.
What will happen, is that Rusty will either loose interest in bringing an object back to me, or just not pick up the object (after maybe two retrieves). Our temps here in the Sacramento valley have been rather warm recently and he does get warm and tired easier. Thus, we only play for a few minutes.
I was thinking of getting one of the deadfowl trainers and scent, to use in the house, and outside in the mornings, when it's cooler.

Birds, birds, and more birds....We'll that's the plan! The trainer that I worked with this last winter, recomended that I get a couple of birds (pigeons) and work with him every couple of weeks.

My thought about using a scented trainer is two fold. First, it should help keep his attention on the object to retrieve, kind of like the ball that squeaks. Second, I don't think I can get away with using live birds in the house. The dog & I are close to being banned from the house as it is. Please tell me if I'm out in left field here, regarding the use of a scented trainer.


Did I detect a subliminal message, for Sterlingworh ownership?
Thanks
Rob
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 5:03 am  Reply with quote
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Heidi was not a natural retriever. She'd go for the bird on the shot, then pick it up and parade with it, drop it and go looking for he next one. Unfortunately, I got her whwn she was well into her third year.

Frizbee was the answer. I bought one of the heavy gauge "dog specials" with the beef bone flaver. It became her favorite toy. She soon learned that if she didn't bring it to me, it wouldn't fly like a bird. The rest just fell into place but it took several seasons. I never did try to stop the parading. She was too old and it was part of her reward, so it worked for us. However, I'd trained her to whoa and hold steady before any reteive training could be done. Whoa has to come first or your dog won't stay put long enough to retrieve train.

Some dogs don't like the taste or feel of the feathers in their mouth. they will drop the bird and spit. Try using an old nylon stocking smeared with a bit of bacon grease over a live quail for retieving practice. The live bird will help your dog stay interested and the sock will control it and keep the feathers from irritating the dog's mouth. Let the dog carry it around a bit and praise him. Then make him come to you. If he drops it, make him sit, insert the bird back in his mouth and make him hold it. just repeat this gently but firmly until he gets the idea. Just have patience and be generous with the praise and the petting when he's holding it well. He'll get the idea. Soon, he'll carry a bird around with him as you walk him on a leash. Reinforce with lots of praise. Don't use dog treats. you don't want the dog to connect the livce bird with food. The little bit of bacon grease should be stopped in the first few lessons.

Just don't do this if the dog is hard mouthed. Break that trait first with some barbed wire with the inside tines trimmed off wrapped around the bird. Let the dog bite it. He'll stop that trait quickly.
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pudelpointer
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 6:25 am  Reply with quote
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If the dog is birdy use live wing clipped pigeons,launch the birds, fire a shot let the dog retrieve the bird. If he preforms the task correctly let him do it again. Only repeat a few times each session. Here is the important and hard part. If he does not retreive the bird go to him,leash him,and leave the field. do not punish him. After a few sessions he will associate the proper response with having more fun. Training dogs requires patience and you as a trainer need to be in control and trusted by the dog. He needs to know when you go to the training feilds play time is over and there is work to be done. Bird dogs thrive on sense of duty and accomplishment. Once you teach them the proper response to a command and they understand what you want they won't let you down very often. Take it slow and easy make sure the dog understands what you want.
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mrosspa
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 12:31 pm  Reply with quote
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Pudelpointer:

Sorry everyone, I'm putting this great thread at risk of a downward conversation spiral, but I want to ask Pudelpointer a question.

Pudel or pudlen was an old German word for water dog. The contemporary name of the dog that is attributed to this 16th century term is the poodle. Do you have a pointing poodle?

The reason I ask, is because I've a birdy poodle I'm training as a retriever. He is 10 months old and coming along fine. He isn't ready for the field or JH tests because he's in the middle of force fetch. We'll see how he does in 2 months.

Michael
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pudelpointer
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 12:55 pm  Reply with quote
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A PUDELPOINTER is one of the wirehair versitile breeds. It was developed in germany. It was a cross with german wasser pudel and english pointers. I think there were 8 pudel crosses with 80 something pointer crosses. The result was a liver colored wirehair pointer. The breed has been very guarded and is only registerd with NAVHDA. You need to buy one, Sharpest dog you will ever hunt behind. This should get the boy's a little exited. If I knew how to insert a photo I would. Go to Cedarwoods kennel home page and look at bobs dogs. Very smart easy to train dogs mine hunts duck and geese in the morning with the best retreivers in the bussiness and then in the afternoon woodcock and grouse with as much style and grace as a good setter or english pointer. The difference is he is my pet that is with me all the time he is devoted to me, he hunts for me and most importantly he listens to me. I don't have to spend the day hunting for my dog.
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 1:31 pm  Reply with quote
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Pudelpointer said: 'I don't have to spend the day hunting for my dog.' Well how else are setter-dog guys suppose to find birds?? Rolling Eyes
Pull out binocs, see flash of white streaking across the distant countryside, pull on jogging shoes, run to where dog last seen, listen for distant bell (must be different tone than the usual tinnitus from shooting), see something white behind bush, find farmer's tom cat who is not happy to be found, dress wounds with old bandana, see another flash of white on wrong side of fence with 'NO TRESPASSING' sign, wait for dog to make another loop past the 640 you CAN hunt, see something white not moving, run to location and exclaim MY GOODNESS THOSE SETTER DOGS ARE PRETTY ON POINT Exclamation Express displeasure with pointed field mouse, break and drop gun, try to dig check cord out of vest as 2 cock pheasants flush at your feet. Say 'Good dog' Laughing
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pudelpointer
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 7:24 am  Reply with quote
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Don't get me wrong I love any dog that hunts. I think pointers and setters are great dogs. I just don't have 5 days a week to train and reinforce. I can train a 6 month old pudelpointer to whoa in 2 days instead of 2 weeks. But they are not white elegant dogs. They are liver colored with a beard. You don't have to hunt with a tie and sportcoat behind these dogs. I'm not partial or anything. Comeon
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hunshatt
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 7:56 am  Reply with quote
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Pudel, that whole crossing thing, sounds like what happened up the street from us. the German Rotty, managed to hook up with the neghibors collie. Now talk about a butt ugly pups with attitude(No Tjc, I'm not talking about the girls, YET)
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