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Yeh but this one was planned with a goal in mind. I can't remember the barons name who did it but I thank god he did. That Rotcollie down the street is probably a herding watch dog. Just make sure he doesn't herd all the bad guys to your back door.

Switching to mornings, when it's much cooler (High's bumped up to the 90's recently) seem to have brought things back to normal. Rusty (dog) was telling me and I was listning. We're going back to birds, birds, and more birds. Since I can't legally hunt until next season, we will be using live, wing clipped, & dizzied-up birds. I may even take him down to the local preserve for a session with the trainer. Being that it's private property and professional training, he can kill birds over him.

Thanks for everyone's help. Rusty is doing very well. I just need to make sure that I'm putting him into good situations for him to learn and excell.
Rob

Rob-let me add one more thing. Every dog advances at their own rate. Brits tend to come on fairly soon, setters have a reputation for being a little slower, GSPs and pointers in between. One of my female setters was CLUELESS in the field until 1 yr/ 9 mths old. Was ready to give up on her and just make her a house dog but took her out the last day of the season (her second) and as if by magic the light bulb came on and that very day she pointed, backed, retrieved to hand and quartered. She turned into my show-off dog AND THOSE SETTER DOGS SURE ARE PRETTY ON POINT Very Happy

. Don't get frustrated too early. Let us know how it all turns out.

Posted here again in response to Bro. Larry and Ted Schefelbein discussing retrieving on the 'Upland hunting and gun dog books' thread.
I was a little surprised by Rob's question as the Brittanys AND GSPs I've hunted with have been tenacious and enthusiastic retrievers. The above mentioned female setter loved to retrieve but both of my males would hunt dead somewhat reluctantly but very effectively, find the bird, look at me, and sorta spit it in my direction as if retrieving was for them lowlife LABS Razz

and not us high class setter dogs WHO SURE ARE PRETTY ON POINT.

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

Chasing clip-wings will usually get a dog pretty excited about retrieving. If not bringing the bird all the way back is the problem, try walking away from the dog as he brings you the bird. This will often keep him from stopping short and dropping it.

Every breed has a variety of traits both good and bad. Every dog is a law unto itself. To say this breed or that breed can be expected to do this or do that is only the most general of statements. You have to come to know your dog. You will also have to sometimes compromise on your expectations. If the dog is average to excellent, then be satisfied short of perfection. There is no such thing. You wouldn't reject or mistreat your kids for not being a carbon copy of the world's most perfect kid. Don't do it to your dog either. Its not supposed to be a status contest. Its a relationship between you and your dog. If not, save yourself and a fine animal a lot of unnecessary trouble and heartaches. Hire it done and forget about owning a hunting dog.

Heidi was a bird finding machine from the get go. she had more hunt in her than any two other dogs I ever hunted over. She'd also hunt dead until hell froze over or until it became clear the bird was not there anymore. Then she'd track until we did find it again. She was relentless. However, she was not an enthusiastic retreiver. All she wanted to do was find birds to smell and point. It took time, patience, a smart approach to the problem, and work disguised as play. She came around. However, she was clearly doing it to please me. It was never high on her priorities. I accepted what I got from her after it became clear she'd advanced in the retrieve dept. as far as she was going to get. Her other positive traits far outweighed her short comings. She loved me and I her. She was the bestest there was in my eyes. That is the best you can get. If you get there, then you've already won first place.

With a little help early on, from one of the local trainers, and recently from many of you. I feel we are doing well. Rusty is retrieving again as normal. The quick onset of heat, seemed to be our biggest problem. Switching training times to mornings, when it's cooler sure helped. Also, the trick about walking away while he is bringing the bird to me, works. I used this same approach when teaching 'Here'. We have a ways to go but are learning together, a step at a time, and having fun. Now it's back to practicing 'Whoa'.

Thanks again for all the help.

Lots of opinions on retrieving and 'Force Fetching' from another site that tends to attract a number of...uh...'overconfident'...types but also some genuine dog men and trainers:

http://bbs.shootingsportsman.com/viewtopic.php?t=28635

http://bbs.shootingsportsman.com/viewtopic.php?t=28215

Member Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 1522 Location: NH

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

A mouthful of feathers on a warm day can cause problems with even pretty good retrievers. Cooler weather may indeed solve some of the problems.

My own Heidi never retrieved anything in her life, except birds. Never showed the slightest interest in balls, bumpers, etc--and it caused me to consider force fetch after her rookie season. Glad I did not do so, because she turned out to be an absolutely incredible retriever on wild rooster pheasants, which are almost certainly the toughest challenge a retrieving dog has in the uplands. Because I shot hundreds of wild pheasants over her, and more of those than I would like came down crippled, she had plenty of chances to work at that game, at which she became very proficient.

As Larry said: birds, birds, and more birds.

Yeah. I'd really like to use more live birds. I kept birds (for awhile) when I was a kid. Maybe I will build a coupe out back. Having a coupe in the back yard, with a few birds, would keep him busy! I'll have to give this more thought.

Hmmmm.....Would you go with a coupe thats built up from the ground, or a raised coupe? I would only need a few birds periodically. I'm thinking that if I do this. I would prefer to use quail. They're smaller and should not require a large coupe. Second, being that they would eventually be set free. I don't really care to end up with a flock of pigeons hanging around.

Tjc, those girls fromt the hitler youth movement, well what can be said?? German girls, german guns, hummmmmmmmm and given your profesion, the whole "gotta be in charge" thing isn't lost on me

thudddddddddddddddddd

ps the bear make it thru the day?

Member Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 1522 Location: NH

Wasn't home today but The Girls were overly interested in the woods again tonight. Didn't see any deer so I am thinking Mr Bruin is back again. That's fine as long as he knows to stay away from the kennels. If he gets too close, ........................Rug