16ga.com ~ View topic

Hello All,

Got another GAEP (Italy http://www.gaep.net/) roll crimper. A few weeks ago I wrote a little article with pictures of roll crimps done with a GAEP 24 gauge crimper -- http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=264134 The latest one I received is in 16 gauge, and this time I used it not only for closing regular top wad (B-wad) roll crimps, but also star crimps. Here are some pictures. The first one shows some regular roll crimps, the top two are paper Chedites (second reloading/roll crimping!), and the bottom pair are some old new primed unfired S&W branded plastic hulls (yeah, that's right, Smith and Wesson):

This second set is of a pair of 65mm Chedite new primed plastic hulls, again regular roll crimp closure:

Next pic is one of the same 65mm Chedite new primed unfired hulls, except this one was crimp-started on a MEC 600 and then closed up with the GAEP roll crimp tool:

Here are two more pictures of the same shell. This is a damn near factory-grade crimp on a new shell. Not bragging; just the facts. Notice how round it is, and the nice taper:

The next two pictures are of a variety of hulls with 6-point crimps closed with the GAEP roll crimper. The first photo shows the 65mm Chedite as above, a Remington Black Gameload, twice fired, and 3 old twice fired Federals. The next photo shows 5 of those old new primed unfired S&W's:

It is hard to make a nice star crimp on those Federals and especially the unfired S&W's. These hulls are very stiff, and even if you get them just right on the MEC, they eventually spring back to a sort of hexagon shape. Thin newer Chedites do it too. It is hard for the MEC, or any other crimp method that does not use a friction heated rotating crimp method to impart a good crimp memory. I didn't take much time on these shells, so they aren't the greatest, but you'll notice they are round, and they'll stay that way. I presume they will be much easier to load nicely on the MEC the next time. Here's a last picture showing all the samples from the side so you can see the nicely rounded edge - good feeding for you pump shooters.:

I also have a good steel roll crimper from Precsion Reloading (the best roll crimpers currently available from US suppliers), but it does not provide as nice an edge-round, and it will not close or improve star/fold crimps, because its slot is too narrow, and its inside face is relieved too much even if the slot was wide enough. l have a lot of old Lyman's, and they are far superior at edge rounding than anything currently available from US suppliers, but most people will never be able to find a Lyman. The GAEP tools are interesting because you can use them for both B-wad closures and star/fold crimps, and they have distinct advantages on new hulls not previously crimped.

By the way, if you go to the GAEP site and see their tools, they are different from what we are used to in a unitized multi-function shotshell reloading tool. They also are a bit more costly, but they look rugged. They are an adaptation of mass-production methods to smaller systems for the home reloader. GAEP tools would be very useful to a company making small batches of custom loads using new hulls. They give very professional results, unlike those custom loads I have seen that have been loaded on P-W's and Spolars. If you use new hulls (Chedite, Fiocchi, Federal, etc) to make your own special loads, these tools would reduce a lot of the frustration of crimping. Once set up, there would be no adjustment necessary or possible, except for case length. With tool life estimates of a few million loads, it would take a few lifetimes to wear one out. By then we'll probably be shooting pheasants with a ray-gun -- I sure hope not!

Cheers!
Tony

Thanks Tony for a great post and the time/effort you spent. I've got roll crimp tools by Lyman, Precision and GAEP. The Lyman/GAEP produce similar nice loads.

Never thought about using a roll crimp tool for folded loads. Question. Did you only pre-crimp the Cheddite hull then close with the GAEP tool or pre-crimp and final crimp on the press then run the hull thru the GAEP tool?

I struggle to get good fold crimps on Cheddites so maybe this will solve my issues.

Thanks
Mike

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

Looked into some of the loading machines, and they are WAAAYYYY pricey!
Would like to maybe try rolling the star crimps though, that is interesting.
Not for the 16 so much, but the 12ga.

Mike and Hootch -- I tried three methods with star crimps. In the first, I made a good deep crimp start, and then closed it with the roll crimper. That's the way the GAEP tool is supposed to be used, actually. It worked OK. Next, I tried to semi-close the crimp with the MEC -- almost flat, but not indented, so no "rim" or depth to the crimp before using the roll crimper. that worked about the same. It depends a lot on how close to "right" the height of the shot is. In these first two methods, it takes firm pressure to close the crimp, just like on a regular reloader, as you can imagine.

In the third method, I finished the crimp with the MEC - full depth - and then polished it off with the roll crimper. That worked well, and probably has the potential to give the best looking result. The MEC, if properly adjusted, does a great job of tapering the crimp, but the roll crimper heats it up and rolls it under a little more -- good for crimp memory. I published this same info over on ShotgunWorld shotshell reloading forum, and after my post, another fellow posted photos of his results done that way with some 10 and 12 gauge shells. His were much nicer.

You know, Lyman, in the 60's and 70's, sold a "roll crimper" intended just for the task of putting the finishing touch on star crimps. I also remember my father finishing some star crimps with his regular Lyman roll crimpers (also meant for slugs!). I still have his Lyman crimpers, and they work great. I have the 12 and 20 with the 6 rounded bumps inside, not the ramps. My 10 gauge Lyman has ramps. By the way, all of this was done on a little old drill press fastened to the bench and hung over a MEC Supersizer holding the shell -- carefully aligned with the drill and crimper, of course. See my previous post on the 24 gauge for a photo of that set-up. It works about the way the GAEP tools work in the videos you can see on their website. I probably will only do this kind of thing for hunting loads, where I want the crimps to be perfect and robust -- 'm willing to put in the time for a few boxes. The crimp tools on MEC presses do a super job on the kind of hulls used for target shooting (AA, STS, GM, etc -- even Estates, Rio's and Fio's, et al), which is most of my reloading, and on which I want to spend as little time per shell as possible.

Cheers!
Tony

shootingsioux:
Did you order your GAEP roll crimper direct ? I found there website a little challanging and wondered if there was an importer?

Art

Thanks Tony for the extra info. I'll give this a try and see how my loads come out.

Art, I ordered my GAEP tool directly from them. Dealt with a gent named Charles via email. Very nice transaction. Charles will help with what you need. Paid by Paypal, shipped direct to me. Think mine was $65 total.

Mike

Mike:
Thanks for the ordering info.
Art

Joined: 14 Oct 2011 Posts: 61 Location: England

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

Except to the USA.

*Last edited by Doggai on Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total*

Deleted

Here's a thought.

In spite of the claim on their website, SIARM does not ship all over the world; and the website says SIARM uses Paypal as the courier of the payment. They do not ship to the US or Canada. Believe me, I tried to get this done, to the extent that I had my extensive correspondence with SIARM translated into native Italian. After weeks of back and forth, I was informed they did not ship to the U.S.

Wait a minute. SIARM sells MEC tools on their Italian website. Gets me to wondering if their business deal with MEC precludes them from selling roll crimpers to the North American market which could affect the sales of MEC tools here. Something to ponder.

It's not like MEC isn't in other business enterprises. For instance, selling clay target (trapshooting) machines. Hmmmm!!! If it smells like a duck . . .

I use a Precision Reloading roll crimp tool to finish my 8 point crimped 16ga shells. I set it up in a small drill press so that the tool will stop at the desired finished cartridge length. all the shells in a given box are finished to a common length. this improves consistency.