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Did any one go to the NRA convention in Wisconsin? Was there anything new for the 16 gauge world? Any confirmations on new guns or anything?

Joined: 08 Oct 2005 Posts: 241

I will take the risk of posting with no avator.

Yes I did attend. We started walking when the show opened at 10:00 and didn't stop until 4:00. Great event.

However very dismal 16 gauge news-

From the Ruger rep" You will NEVER see a 16 in the Red Label or Gold Label".

From the Browning Rep," There is so little demand for the 16 we only produce a limited run every 3 years. Our dealers tell us they have a hard time selling a 16. We feel there is less demand for a 16 they most people think."

I asked the Remington Rep about putting a 16 gauge barrel on the LT1100 20 guage frame. His response," What are you after? What's your goal? We already make a 16 gauge in a 1100."

I did handle the CZ 16 gauge Ringneck. Semed like a decent gun for the money.

Also I may be mistaken but Merkel had at least five 16's at the show. Wonderful guns but over my head at this point.

Dakota had an example of their side by side in a 16. Nice but they didn't speak to me.

Ammuntion wise I feel Nobelsport deserves some attention. The reps were happy to discuss the 16 and give me a catalog. They have the 16 in their line. The rep said there is no consumer direct sales as they want to give Mom and Pop gunshop a product to compete against the big guys. I guess anyone with an FFL could order for you.

The B&P guys were great. They are located in the Chicago area and said if I was near I could stop in and buy all I wanted.

Forget dealing with Winchester. They had less the zero interest in any new hulls or wads or anything dealing with the 16.

Overall great event. I must have seen 100 AR 15 and 200 1911 models. Not a huge draw for me but the most numerous gun at the show.

16 crazy

I would not let this show discourage you. The NRA has always had the support of "Big Green" and "Winny the Poop." Remington is past the point of relevence. Thats why they can't see the future bearing down on them like a tank. The crash will be spectacular. You can't make a point to a blunt object with no intelligence. Winchester/Olin--forget them. They couldn't fnd their own ass with both hands.

Never say never when it comes to Ruger. I've heard this kind of crap from them before, just prior to them releasing something exactly like the thing that will never happen. Ruger loves to surprise folks. The smaller framed blackhawk was never gonna be made again just three years ago. Yeah--right! etc.

The domestic gun and ammo market is being taken over by foreign entities. This is good for the 16 ga. Don't think things aren't getting better. They are. They will simply not be from domestic sources wit their ingrained prejudices, at least until the demand grows some more. we still have a ways to go, but we are definately on the right track. Keep the faith brother.

Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 311

16crazy,

I am not at all surprised by your report. The fact that posters on this forum still report on the wherabouts of NIB Browning 16's at some dealer or other from the LAST run that Browning made shows there is a small niche market for the 16.

The answer by the Ruger rep is about the same as I received some years ago when I wrote a letter to them asking for a 16 RL. Based on the lack of 16 barrels and the dropping of the 870 Express 16 in the Remington 2006 catalog I would say they are simply selling on hand inventory and the 16 will be gone from the catalog by next year so their answer does not surprise me.

I wonder if the European ammo companies can offer greater varieties of ammo to the U.S. market because the 16 is a good seller in Europe? That would mean they are simply importing ammo they make for the Euro market and not really offering anything special for the U.S.

I don't really see a brite future for the 16 as companies like Browning (Gold) and Winchester (SX3) and Ruger (Gold label) and Remington (CTI105) and Benelli (Ultralite) continue to offer ever lighter 12's. To the "man in the street" a light 12 will beat hell out of a light 16 every day of the week.

The 16 is destined to remain the gun of a very small number of shotgunners. Sad to say but true.

16Crazy,
That feeling, like the weight of the world is on your shoulders, that your experanceing, is all of us exerting PMA (possitive mental attitude) , oh yea and peer presure, and our group karma, trying to pressure you into getting a avitar........ You'll be shunned, red lettered, only in reverse. The word will go via Pm and you'll get the same treatment as Fin...... Fin who you ask??? exactly.... Wink

thudddd-that was pretty good.
CFT-unfortunately you are quite right.
(Everyone remember not to respond to any post by FIN Wink

)

B&P has an excellent selection of 16 loads IN THE CATALOG-the problem is availability. Still waiting for the F2 Classic I ordered in March Confused

but expect good things from that load. BTW: I'm told they have a distribution center in Tempe.

Guest

Lets put this whole thing into prespective.

50 years ago you could get 16 gauge ammunition from three sources, Winchester, Remington and Federal in two loads, one ounce and one and one eighth ounce. Today you can get the same basic loads from the same companies plus now we can get loads from Fiocci, Ely, Rio, Westly Richards and hopefully RST again.

50 years ago you could get a new 16 gauge shotgun from Remington in the 870 and 1100, Winchester in the Model 12, Ithaca in the Model 37, Stevens Model 311 and Savage 520 and a few European imports. Today all are still available except the Model 12, the Savage and the Stevens but today there is a much broader choice of imports from Spain, Italy, Germany and Turkey plus the Browning Citori and Huns favorite Merkley.

The ammunition is better, the guns for the most part are as good as they were (I know some will bitch about the Remingtons but hey they work).

Life ain't bad even if Ruger won't chamber their Red Label and Gold Labels in 16 guage....who needs them when you still have all of those great old Foxes, L. C.s, Ithaca NIDs and Parkers floating around out there.

PS if you ain't gonna respond to brother Fins post you don't need to respond to mine either.

There Fin I got your back.

Well said TB. Kansas has produced some brilliant journalists and outdoor sports writers since the days of William Allen White like Tarrant, Boddington, Waterman, and Yearout (oops-forget that last one Laughing

)

TB, my point exactly. Things are better. Some folks just don't remember those days, and some of us can't remember those days. Rolling Eyes

. Were things better prior to WWII for the 16 gauge fan?--you bet. The gauge had not been targeted for termination by our two biggest gun/ammo makers who survived past WWII.

Both Remington and Winchester now dominated the domestic gun market. they saw American skeet as their savior and jumped into it, or you could say, on it big time. They sponsored, built, and ran shooting complexes all over the nation. I used to shoot at a former Winchester skeet and trap complex just Southwest of Orlando, FL., the Orange County Trap club. The place had complete skeet fields to the left and six trap fields to the right of the ammo shack, a nice club house, and RV parking for campers. In fact, many of the existing state home trap and skeet grounds are the existing former commercial complexes these folks built. However, there was no place made for the 16 gauge. It was a tad too small for handicap traqp targets, it competed with their 4 gauge skeet based offerings, it was a little too versitile for hunting, so it had to go.

Unfortunately, the everyman rules they forced onto the game of skeet ruined it, competition wise. Its about dead now, a victim of too simple and repetitious a format. Sporting clays is clobbering it. International skeet is a much tougher game for most folks and draws the best shooters away. American skeet is best played as a low gun game. In fact, the classic skeet shooters do just that.

So now American skeet is a game mostly played on the single skeet fields of small one and two field gun clubs all over the nation as a fun thing. these little clubs aren't big enought for formal competition. most folks who shoot at them do so not for glory or prizes but just for fun. And fun it is too. It is where all the lovely little gauge hunting guns come out to play. Hence, the 16 is coming out of the closet too, and so is demand for light kicking fun loads for our favorite gauge, like 3/4 and 7/8 ounce loads--rightfully so.

So the 16 just will not die according to plan. It's outlived Winchester. It will probably outlive Remington. What these bozos do not accept is that you cannot kill a good idea or concept. They've been trying for over 50 years. They failed. Its getting stronger after every shot they and their syncophant gunwriting hacks have taken at it.

Now that the big domestic gun makers are in eclipse, the 16 is coming back strong again. My best advice is just keep shooting it, talking about it, reloading for it, finding more ways to enjoy it, and screw the folks who don't get it. They never will. You can't fight ignorance and prejudice with knowledge or facts. But love of the gauge will. Its infectious. I've seen this myself. Look no further than the growth of this very site. Come on now, open your eyes, you folks who see the dim view. Things are better--trust me. 16GG.

PS: Have a lovely, peaceful, safe, and glorious Memorial Day, and please take a moment during the day to remember all who gave all for freedom.

Guest