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Joined: 28 Feb 2012 Posts: 40

Hi,

I bought a used 16Ga side by side. Honestly this is my first sxs. I didn't shoot yet but I think it seems the muzzle pointing a bit upward Sad

I am regularly using semi auto and I suppose this sxs is a bit weird about pointing. And question is, how do you pointing or aiming to pattern board? Thank you

Traditionally a shotgun is patterned at 40 yds AIMED to a 6 inch black bullseye. One AIMS the front bead at the 6 o'clock position on the black bullseye. Pull trigger.

Since you usually are going to pattern for density of shot and not only point of impact, I use butcher paper at least 4 X 4 feet pinned to a backstop of either board or metal. ( IF metal, be sure of your shooting zone as metal pellets will bounce every which way. One doesn't want to endanger anyone or anything.) Using the 6 inch bullseye AIMING POINT as your reference point....draw a 30 inch circle around shot pattern. Divide circle into quarters. Count pellet strikes above/below line for Point of Impact percentage patterning results. I forget now just how many pellets are in an ounce of shot. Find that figure and determine the percentage of choke for each barrel.

For the best patterning of each barrel you will need two sheets of paper at least. I usually shot two shells at each target for determining a pattern.

Joined: 28 Feb 2012 Posts: 40

Thank you, understood. I'll try. Will I see the barrel between breech and front bead?

Member Joined: 25 Jun 2008 Posts: 1863 Location: Wisconsin

Nnnooowwwww.... we're getting somewhere!

This is a topic that befuddles me, because there is so much variation in the manners described by many people both in yardage to the patterning board and how to AIM a shotgun.

One thing is certain, the thirty inch circle at a prescribed distance to measure a percentage of shot inside that circle per given choke and number of pellets is a benchmark, but I have never done this because of all of the uncertainty of the second, yet equally important part of the equasion; aiming a shotgun.

I can break an anvil with a feather, and am well known to not be very mechanically inclined and am always willing to seek the advice of those in the know. BUT, this whole business about how to aim a shotgun seems to be variable enough to seriously question the methodology of the average Joe or Judy.

I was raised on a model 12 Winchester, and my aiming lessons centered upon mounting the gun, dropping my head to the comb, peering down the receiver and raising the barrel until I saw the bead. I would place this sight picture, with the bead squarely on top of the receiver, and complete the process by putting the bead just below the head of a gobbler when I made him stretch his neck upwards, looking for that hussy of a hen.

I have never been sure that was the proper aim a shotgun, and I credit some guns patterning better than others "just because" the gun in particular happened to work well for that sight picture. Add that to the fact that each gun has a different sight picture and that SxS guns, of which I own a few, present an even different set of circumstances. Some guns have concave, hunting ribs and others have receiver height ribs and yet others have raised ribs.

I have no need to aim a shotgun unless I want to kill a turkey or check a pattern, and because I'm not confident that I know what a correct sight picture for the gun in question, I don't even do that. This is an elementary question and core to getting the most out of a skattergun, but I still lack the confidence to do it right.

Aiming a shotgun and leading a target where my focus is on the bird and not the barrel or sights are two entirely different things, and thank goodness I don't have much problem with the latter or I'd have a lot of explaining to do when I come home from the field, both to my curious wife as to exactly where I've been to my children who are growing so fast that they practically carry utensils on their persons wherever they go.

However, I know that I'm missing out on an important bit of knowledge, and I'm hoping to get even more return for my cherished 16GA membership when one or all of you take up this cause and lead me to the water. Of course I remind all that I am lazy enough to marry a pregnant woman so if the literature out there is plentiful and thorough, excuse me for asking in the first place.

Confession is wonderful; I feel so much better now.

Reno

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

Are you trying for POA(point of aim) or POI(point of impact). The first one refers to you and the second as to where the shotgun is regulated.40 yards is a poor distance to figure either one to start. First and foremost is the mount. I have a method I use. There are books out there that will explain it in detail.

Joined: 28 Feb 2012 Posts: 40

It seems can not say the right sight picture for an ordinary SxS. Obviously can not focus both game and sight picture. But if I know the right one for mine, can understand whether it(stock etc) will fit to me approximately. I'll shoot and see but as said before, suppose will hit a little upward.

Then may I ask, is there a common right sight picture for a raised rib SxS? I hope there is a part of rib in it Smile

My goal is to know POI but doen't it related with POA too Rolling Eyes

Thanks to everybody. Seems will learn more then I hope.

Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 728

spr310 makes a good point that I will take one step further. If you are patterning loads in your turkey gun I would agree that "aiming" at a dot 40 yards away would provide some useful information. If you are a wingshooter who is trying to assess "point of impact" howvever,you should shoot the same way you would in the field; put your target at 20-25 yards then,keeping your eye(s) on the target, bring the gun to your shoulder point (not aim) it at the target and fire in essentially one motion. This will tell you give you a good idea where your pattern strikes when you shoot it in the field.

Joined: 28 Feb 2012 Posts: 40

Trying both is better. Thank you. Thanks for all replies.

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

If just checking the pattern this gun throws with a particular load, you can shoot it at any distance. I usually start at 25 yards. If there are big problems they will become evident at 25. If not, you can go further out to 40.

If you want to check Where the gun shoots, I do that at 16yards.

If you believe that the National Rifle Association knows anything about shotguns, then pick up a copy of their April 1980 American Rifleman magazine. Read the article,
Patterning Shotguns, How the NRA tech staff does it.

Joined: 28 Feb 2012 Posts: 40

I tried it in at approx. 30 yards range. Unfortunately the target wasn't big enough. Anyway think that can hit, especially, upland games. Better then my early guess. Nearly 1/3 of barrel was in sight picture. By the way, the stock still lack of a little drop. I had to bend a little more over to stock which in comparison with my comfortable mount.

Surely NRA staff know better. My test was rather amateur. I'll look for it.

By the way, I'll reload low velocity hull. Kick of 1300 fps rather high for me(for this 6 lb sxs too).

Again thanks to everybody. Greatly appreciated.

Sounds like your gun needs a lot more drop at heel if you're seeing 1/3 of the barrel. Personally, I like my sxs's to shoot flat to point of aim with no barrel or rib showing, partially because I just feel comfortable with that and partially because I shoot at just as many dropping targets (chukars flying downhill) as I do rising ones. 2.5" -2.75" dah works for me, but of course everyone is built differently.

Well, this turned up a lively discussion. Something I would like to mention. Aiming is done via the method you have been taught. Since most of Americans are rifle shooter taught in the first place not shotgun taught as the Continental people used to be taught.......

While working for Fajen, Inc. we regularly built custom fitted stocks in one day. This entailed going to the patterning board at the end of the day. One thing became clear....no two people see the same sight picture....each person patterning the shotgun got different POI aiming for the same point painted to the board. Same gun, same shells, same weather conditions. Not scientific I know....but interesting. It was interesting, different manufacturers shotguns didn't shoot to the same POI using the same stock style and dimensions for the same person. Again identical conditions, except....different manufacturer of firearm.

There is no right or wrong way to do the patterning. In one company I worked for, we made new barrels for competition shotguns. We used a steady rest to test rib height,choke and POI at 40 yds. In another company the board was only 30 feet away using no rest allowing the customer to aim( as with a rifle) at the 6 o'clock position. The most important factor is consistancy. Do what you do the same way every time.

Just food for discussion.

Member Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 972 Location: Keller,TX

I've read the comments on this topic with a some what "open" mind. The reason I say this is that, apart from shooting slugs or shooting the wild turkey, a shooter would never AIM a shotgun-period. I don't care how "precise" you want to be. You need to remember one thing about shooting shotguns at flying game- "aiming" is not going to insure anything but a miss. I say this to illustrate a point. You need to determine where that shot charge is going when you mount that shotgun to your cheek and shoulder pocket. Put up a wide( 40"x 40") blank sheet on a stand with a flourescent dot in the center so you have some easy shooting target. Place the sheet where the dot is face high off the ground. Back off 15 to 20 steps.Mount the gun and fire it as if the dot were a bird- concentrate on the dot- and shoot. Do this at least 3 times with each barrel. This will reveal where your shot charge is heading. This is when you need to ask yourself if your gun fits your style of shooting. If it doesn't, ask for help on this forum.We love answering questions and sharing information. Very Happy

Like spr310 said there is POI and POA.

The first POI you need to establish to be sure that the shotgun is shooting where it is aimed, and yes aimed for POI. If POI is off you could be making huge adjustments to the stock for no reason, when you go to POA.

POA is where is the shotgun shooting compared to where you are looking. This, obviously has nothing to do with aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise, I like to do it at 30 yards, but there are some that like to establish POA at shorter distances.

The link below is really super detailed and works.

http://www.northstarclaytarget.com/tech_corner/n_winston/nw_poi_pattern.html