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old16
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:20 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Indiana

Just finished the latest sporting clay mag. It looked liked the article on different gages by Tom Roster was just something to write about to fill in space otherwise it did't didn't make much sense. He talks about there is really no need for other gages than the 12 because the modern loads you can buy now all the way down to 3/4oz. Which is what you can get in a 28ga. Well alot of that is true. He explains about how the weight of the 12 has come down because of the modern materials put in the new guns. Well that is true. But you still have to carry a club because that is what it takes to build a reciever around that size of the shell. I'm not going to get into this very far because when he talks about modern powders with their differnet burning rates and their pressures ok. He also mention about how black powder has a very slow burning rate which tells me now that when he wrote the whole article he did't know a darn thing what he was talking about because BLACKPOWDER EXPLODES IT DOES NOT HAVE A SLOW BURNING RATE. The pressure drops off the very instant after explosion.

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fin2feather
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:07 am  Reply with quote
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Tom's not making himself real popular on this board, is he? Laughing

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I feel a warm spot in my heart when I meet a man whiling away an afternoon...and stopping to chat with him, hear the sleek lines of his double gun whisper "Sixteen." - Gene Hill, Shotgunner's Notebook
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:23 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 28 Dec 2005
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Unfortunately, he is mostly correct BUT WE DON'T CARE CAUSE 16ERS HAVE MORE FUN Very Happy
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hoashooter
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:22 pm  Reply with quote
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There are several types of shotgunners--Here are two types.
1.THE TRUE 16 ga lover who has no need to make excuses for his gun,load or history of the 16.We load,hunt with and enjoy the 16 and are more than willing to share this hands-on experience with anyone.
2. Folks what will NEVER see the light of ANY gauge and spend more time in front of the keyboard than behind a recoil pad.Also included in this group is a subspecies that rarley shoot and accept the former 's words as the gospel.
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old16
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:14 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Indiana

Amen to that.

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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:52 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

I have a few 16s....and a few 12s....and a few 20s.....and a few .22 rifles....and a really neat old BRNO VZ24 in .257 Roberts Ackley Improved...and a few handguns, mostly .357s, but some others....Which catagory do I fall into?
I shot 12s and .357 today, certainly hope I'm not disqualified or anything!
Best,
Ted
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TJC
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:55 am  Reply with quote
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Ted, you are just put on probation for that act of defiance. Very Happy

Truth be told I would guess we all have many different guns of different cals and ga's. I know I do.
I just don't admit on here that I hunt and shoot with them. Wink

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Rem16
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:24 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Northeast Ohio

Ted, your ok because to join i read that you only need to know something about a 16, not even own one. I like to split my clay shootin evenly between 12, 16, 20, 28, and .410. Smile I hunt with them all also, the 12 is for turkey and geese, 16 for squirrel and rabbit, as well as 20 and 28 and 410. My pheasant hunting is 16 and 12.

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You can't decide between 20 and 12? The solution is the 16!
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clayflingythingy
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:06 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 311

For a very long time in this country 12 gage guns were 8 lb affairs. In recent years the weights have come down dramatically with the new Benelli Ultralight coming in at 6 pounds. Altho I do like the 16 (obviously) I am afraid that the "man in the street" will choose the light 12's and the current 16 resurgence may come to a halt and backslide even.
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Lawrence U
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:23 pm  Reply with quote
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Quote:
I am afraid that the "man in the street" will choose the light 12's and the current 16 resurgence may come to a halt and backslide even


Perhaps it will just long enough for the price on that really sweet Elsie I saw to get within range Very Happy

Of course, backsliding is a spiritual condition and regardless of your soteriology the real solution is the same. If one is an Arminian then he assumes that the backslidden one has lost his salvation and he needs to hear the Gospel. If one is a Calvinist he assumes that the backslidden is a Christian and in need of convicion by the hearing of the Gospel. Thus, if the 16 ga. trend does backslide then it is up to us, the faithful, to preach the gospel. (The good news of the 16 bore.)

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TJC
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:02 am  Reply with quote
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clayflingythingy wrote:
I am afraid that the "man in the street" will choose the light 12's and the current 16 resurgence may come to a halt and backslide even.


In addition, I wonder if the price of ammo will contribute to this. It seems that all of the ammo companies to some extent feel the need to gouge the price of 16 ga. ammo. In some cases as much as $20-25 a flat. For some this might be a deciding factor. With everything else in the world going up the average person or "man in the street" might just choose one of those light 12 ga guns or an even lighter 20 ga gun that he can get ammo for a cheaper price. Question Question Question Question Question

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Wolfchief
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:01 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 782
Location: Indiana

TJC: I think you have hit on some very sound reasoning there. All of the research we do at the Bank, in terms of what the customer wants, points to CONVENIENCE as a top priority. With everything else going on in the average person's life, for a product or item to resonate positively in the consumer's mind, it has to be easy to access, quick to perform, low or at least "reasonable"cost, and convenient to "feed" or service.

Access to 16 gauges, information about them, and acquisition of ammo, is anything BUT convenient, and usually not particularly low cost. And if we were honest with ourselves, we might admit that while we consider the 16 is "best", would the average person feel that the extra hassle is worth it for what they might perceive to be a slight increase in performance?

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TJC
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:37 am  Reply with quote
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Wolf,
I don't think they would. We that are sick about the 16 ga put up with the small "bumps in the road" if you will. But truth be told, There are more 20 and 12 ga guns available from more companies. There is for sure more ammo available at more reasonable prices. Reloading materials are definately more available for the other 2 ga's. So why would the avg person go through the hassle of getting a 16 and having to deal with the problems? They won't.

Dick's yesterday had Rem Game loads on sale. 12 and 20's were $2.98 a box on sale. They had 16's, but not on sale. They were $3.79 a box. Now, in their defense, not on sale the 12, 20, and 16's were all $3.79 a box. As well as you can get 10% off if you buy a flat. I was able to score 2 cases of 7.5's for sporting clays and trap.
Cabela's last week had Estates on sale in 12 and 20. 16's were $20 a flat more. Some said in another post it was because they use better hulls for the 16 ga. I find it hard to swallow that explanation but that's just my mistrusting nature. I think they just like to jack the $$ up like every other manufacturer.
Even Briley charges more to put the thin wall tubes in a 16 vs the 12 and 20. I assume it has something to do with set up time for the machines. ??

I just hope the avail guns, ammo and supplies don't go away any time soon. I'm enjoying my 16's too much. Very Happy

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MGF
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:38 pm  Reply with quote
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TJC wrote:
So why would the avg person go through the hassle of getting a 16 and having to deal with the problems? They won't."


What amazes me is not that the "average person" doesn't choose to own a 16 but that many who consider themselves shotgun buffs do not.

Perhaps it all comes back to what a person expects/accepts from a shell/gun and how important the feel and appearance of the gun are to the individual. Personally, I think we 16ga nuts seek an overall "whole" or "gestalt" that some other gunners aren't even aware exists, let alone desire.

Personally, every time I hear the old saw, "A nice little 20 will do everything a 12 will do for upland hunting," I laugh. I have chased a sh*tload of pheasants with both, and no theories, opinions, mathematics, counts from patterning boards, etc., will ever convince me that a load above 7/8 of an ounce will perform as well from a 20 ga. barrel as it will from a 12. The 12 simply puts big birds down with more certainty at moderate ranges and has additional reach that a 20 does not. Let's face it ... all other things being equal, a given load is going to throw a better pattern with more pellets arriving at the same time out of the bigger tube.

That is what I find fascinating about the 16. I like a sleek, fast-handling field guns, and a little bit of pretty don't hurt. Although a newbie to 16s, it seems to me the 16's bore handles an ounce to 1 1/8 oz. without difficulty while the gauge's dimensions lend themselve to a sweet-handling, graceful-looking gun.

Having been under-awed by the 20's performance on pheasant, I sought out the 16 and now think I might understand how it became "queen of the uplands." (The "might" is 'cause I can't chase bird with it until this fall.)

And it's not all about weight. I have an alloy-receivered 12ga Beretta Ultralight O/U with 28" tubes that weighs less than my 20 or my 16, both of which are true-framed and neither of which are oinkers. I have killed a lot of birds with that 12, and while it is certainly well-designed and well-executed firearm, there is nothing about it that I find thrilling. It is sort of amazingly deadly for its weight, but it's still got the lines of a 12.

In other words, I think I -- and perhaps we -- want it all in one gun: Sleek, pretty, graceful, efficient, deadly.
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TJC
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:48 pm  Reply with quote
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MGF,
I agree with you 100%. Especially as I get a bit older I find myself wanting a little bit of the finer things in life. I may not be able to afford all that I would want but I do well enough to make myself happy. Smile
The 16 ga was an experiment for me. I never owned one until a couple of years ago so I bought one and gave it a whirl for pheasant hunting. It worked well. That was the Browning Feather.
Now I love my Browning Feather in 16 but it just doesn't do for me what my Merkel does or even the Fox Sterly in excellent shape I got earlier this year. There is just something about those guns that makes me want to go hunting. They deserve to be in the hands of a hunter along side a dog or 2 chasing some bird some where. Wink I'm sure the new 1620 will do the same when it arrives. Especially after Briley gets done with it. Can you say thin wall choke tubes? Very Happy

The Feather is now dedicated to breaking clay birds at both the trap range and the sporting clays range. It does just fine there.

We 16ers do appreciate the finer things in a quality gun and what the value of the load, bore diameter etc have when it comes to getting the job done.

We are a strange breed. Wink

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