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Hammer
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:12 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 354

.

FYI...

Pacific Sporting Arms in California has two of the new 16 gauge Perazzis in stock.

.
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bmc
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:35 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jul 2010
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Location: SoCal-FL- NYC

Hammer wrote:
.

FYI...

Pacific Sporting Arms in California has two of the new 16 gauge Perazzis in stock.

.


nice looking gun, i know it will be well made but i think PSA screwed up order. exclusive, means they ordered it to their specs and IMHO its too long and too heavy, even the choke combo is weird IC/IM. why IM and not just M? i would even understand LM. its a bastard gun and a poor attempt to copy.

but thanks for the heads up.
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Ron Overberg
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:46 am  Reply with quote
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I find the choke choice great. I use SK/LM early in the year and IC/IM later. Last year the combination IC/IM worked in SD with great success. Then again, I was using 1 1/4 oz. lead Remington loads in my Beretta SxS built in 1933. Come to think about it I am a little strange. Wink
Ron
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kgb
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:21 pm  Reply with quote
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The paperwork with the MX16 I once owned listed IC and IM chokes and they measured .012" and .024". To me that's about Mod and Full. Check Briley's charts and those are in the IC/IM realm. They used to list 16ga specs identical to 12ga specs, I hadn't looking a while but they're not on this chart--in a 20ga they'd call these constrictions LM and Full.

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Hammer
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:22 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 354

.

My current interest in a 16 gauge Perazzi is as a trap gun, so I would like 34-inch barrels choked Full and Extra Full.

For a field model 16 gauge, I would still like 30-inch barrels choked Modified and Full.

But I have other 16 gauges with shorter barrels (26-inch) and open chokes.

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bmc
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:25 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jul 2010
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Hammer wrote:
.

My current interest in a 16 gauge Perazzi is as a trap gun, so I would like 34-inch barrels choked Full and Extra Full.

For a field model 16 gauge, I would still like 30-inch barrels choked Modified and Full.



see this is what im talking about. im not sure who is spearheading this movement PSA, Perazzi, or the shooters in the greater LA basin. Either way its been going on for at least 12 years.

I used to shoot a lot of clays with Dan Reeves, many many years ago, and ill never forget when he pulled out his MX8 with 34" barrels. The gun when closed came up to my chin, i am of average height, and yet it was ridiculous. Then it seemed like everyone at Moore N Moore and BBB started ordering and shooting longer and longer guns.

I understand the argument for the length, i dont buy it, but i understand it.

i also understand your personal interest in a 16ga trap gun, but that is exactly why i think PSA is off their mark in the way they configured the gun. it is neither a field nor a clays gun. I also blame perazzi, they really want to make their mark in clays. yet they constantly try to cross over and make field guns and fail. i dont know why they just dont own what they are, superbly made shooting shotguns. this 16 is some frankengun, its not the ideal clays gun nor is it a good field gun.

this 16ga perazzi was ordered in field drab. IMHO that means light weight, and 26 to 28" barrels. I also like a slender wrist, straight stock. A thick wrist and pistol grip really fatigues you after hours of carrying the gun in the field. In addition for the field i think IC at everything is perfect. especially in the smaller bores 20 and 16. I defy you to come out and carry a 7.5 to 8lb gun all day, choked tight, and shoot pheasant over point or valley quail.

again, some guys like heavy big guns, but that's just not for me, especially in a field gun.
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bmc
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:46 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jul 2010
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Location: SoCal-FL- NYC

see these guys get it.



http://www.pugsguns.com/findItem.action?id=1864

This is from Puglisi's gun room. Besides WLM, this is one of my favorite gun rooms in the country.

Who knows who ordered the guns, probably not them, but they are closer to a field gun. they have a vent rib, and a straight stock. i also like the 27.5 barrels.

the only thing i cant understand is how these guns weigh 3/4 of a pound more than the the guns at PSA. maybe it is that recoil pad, but they are shorter and have a vented rib, so one would think they would weigh less.

either way, this is more of a field gun than the ones at PSA.
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Hammer
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:48 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 354

.

Have both very light and some heavy guns.

Have carried 500 Nitro Express doubles all day for two weeks at a time around the Okavango so have built some immunity to carrying heavy guns.

But not making any recommendation or suggestion for anyone else.

I like light 16 gauges on some days.

On others, I like 32-inch 12 gauge Model 21's.

At this time, I like tight chokes, but I reserve the right to amend and extend my remarks at a later time.

Think you're probably right concerning the 16 gauge Perazzis in California -- neither fish nor fowl.

But PSA must have had something in mind when they ordered this specific configuration.

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bmc
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:46 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jul 2010
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Hammer,

First, i want to let you know that none of this is directed at you or your preferences. I appreciate that you have responded and been a gentleman.

Second, I am very tired of seeing stuff like this. The so called experts mis-leading the general public.

Oh, they had something in mind when the ordered it all right, and that thought was money.

You know, i had a sixth sense when i saw the PSA 16ga that it was a strange bird. Then after my last post i went to PUGS gun room to see if they still carried the KEMEN and i saw the PUGS 16ga, and just felt so insulted.

You know we live in a very consumer rich environment. Souther CA is a market maker for many fine high end brands (ferrari, etc.).

The PSA 16ga is a lazy mans, thoughtless configuration, just to put a 16ga on the shelf to say they have one when the phone rings.

The thing that sucks is the guy who buys that gun is not getting what he is paying for. The gun could have been so much more, and at the same price.

For example look at the fore end of the PSA gun:



compared to the PUG gun:



look at the checkering on the PUGS gun. It wraps around and goes all the way up the fore end. this is not for aesthetics. this is for the FIELD, where your hands sweat, or get bloody, or you wear a glove and you need the extra checkering to have a firm grip. This is function over form, even though it looks beautiful. someone put some thought into this or at least they copied the right thing.

the PSA gun has almost no checkering, again in clays that can be an advantage. deep checkering and firing hundreds of rounds can really irritate your hands if not blister them. but remember this gun is being sold as a field gun.

another give away:

the PSA gun has that lame wanna be engraving. its the lazy mans engraving, just on there to say that it has some engraving and justify the extra cost or expense of the gun.




the PUGS gun doesnt insult me. it says " im a field gun " plane and simple, but im well made and ill last you forever.






but hey, why care? why try to get something right? it doent matter, just throw it on the shelf and watch it fly out the door.
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old16
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:13 pm  Reply with quote
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I agree that they are a long way from a trap gun. and as far as field gun I hve many of them. But I courious, what the price on those smoke poles. I havn't seen that mentioned yet.

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RLR390
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:41 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 334

Price is 11,300 (rounded). When I saw these advertised by PS I thought they were probably made up for Sporting Clays shooting. In any event, they are way over priced, IMHO.
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Hammer
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:56 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 354

.

The mere implication that a Perazzi is over-priced ?!?

Such heresy.


Currently they are checking on having a trap combo made for me which would have both 12 gauge and 16 gauge 34-inch O/U barrels and 35-inch barrels in a top single barrel (total of four barrel sets). Would choke the single barrels and the top barrel of the O/U somewhere in the .050" range and the lower barrel of the O/U in the .045" range. Figure that would create some smoke in either gauge from the 16 yard line.

Would reduce the frequency of folks at the range walking away with the wrong gun.

Wink



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GF1
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:42 pm  Reply with quote
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The real issue here is that this gun, and the special run of MX16s in 16 gauge that Don Criswell had made up about 12 years ago, is that these guns are built on a 12 gauge frame, albeit a good one.

I traded Don for one of those early guns, even had Andrew Litt in U.K. get me a set of 12 gauge bbls for the gun. These guns had leaf springs, just like the MX8, sans the removable trigger; the only models that did as far as I know (Perazzi also made up some 12 gauge MX16s that had coil springs, like the MX12). I liked it, shot it well, but used the 12 gauge barrels more than the 16s due to the weight. Finally sold it.

I frankly don't understand the appeal of these heavy guns in 16 gauge, though I fell smitten by the way it handled initially (first got hold of it at the Vegas show many years ago).

My solution to a nice Italian 16 is something like this Piotti...it will go in my coffin with me!

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BigCreekMI
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:37 pm  Reply with quote
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Again, a novelty gun at best. None of the "big dogs" of ATA will be shooting one. I do give Perazzi credit for at least making a few 16's for those that must have them, no matter how big and heavy if they are willing to pay. I have tried to convince Beretta, Etchen, Cole, et al to offer a scaled frame 16 to no avail. They say the Beretta 20ga frame is just too small and Beretta has too many other new products in pipeline to invest in unique 16ga O/U frame. I remain hopeful.

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bmc
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:40 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Jul 2010
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BigCreekMI wrote:
They say the Beretta 20ga frame is just too small and Beretta has too many other new products in pipeline to invest in unique 16ga O/U frame. I remain hopeful.


i used to feel that way about beretta, but then i realized the FAIR 16ga was just as good, if not better, and there would be no need for th beretta. i do wish that they made the 391 in 16ga.
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