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I want to explain my dislike for the Ithaca Model 37. This is just my own experience and probably has nothing to do w/ the 37 in reality; its now, I judge them w/ complete hatred and prejudice based solely on this one gun.

This was a cursed Model 37 from Hell. I bought in from a guy off the internet. When it came in my dealer would not give it to me because the dealer that shipped it forgot to include an FFL copy. It took two weeks to straighten that out. The gun seemed to be ok for $150 except that it needed rebluing in the worst way. I sent it to Ithaca to be reblued at their "Spring Rebluing Special." After they had the gun for a couple of weeks, they went out of business. Now they had my gun and my cashier's check for $140.

After many phone calls and letters, I get it back almost a year later. It is not reblued and I am out the $140 plus another $25 for the dealer to accept it for me. So, I figured I have over $300 in a $150 gun that is still ugly why not let this smith blue it for me? Now its $90 more dollars and the bluing is ok but not great.

I take the gun quail hunting. A small covey gets up. I shoot at one and miss. I pump the slide handle, but it won't pump. It is hopelessly jammed. I almost drove over to the gulf to throw it off the Sunshine Skyway Bridge. Instead I took it to0 a dealer and he gave me $180 for it.

If my math is correct, I am out a total of $325 and have nothing to show for it. Sometimes we just have to accept our losses and move on. I never want to look at or even touch another Model 37 ever in my life.
Long live the Model 12.
XVI

*Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:31 am; edited 2 times in total*

Geez, just because you are both economically challenged and a bad shot is no reason to cuss the poor gun. Wink

Its darned tough to come up with a decent 16 ga model 37 for $150. Good clean ones go for $300 and up and are a bit scarce. The best, most desirable Model 37 guns can go for twice that. These guns get used, because they are great hunting guns and originally sold for a decent price when new. Most of them for sale have had the hell shot out of them and the finish is about gone. The pre-WWII guns have probably served at least two generations of hunters, and have passed through many hands. Most still work too. 90% of the ones I've handled feed, fire and shuck perfectly. That says something about these guns. John Browning designed them to work perfectly and to last forever--just like every other gun he ever had a hand in designing.

Most 37 pumps were considered utilitarian hunting guns and were not pampered with loving care. They are tough as hell. Folks tended to shoot them hard and put them up with a minimum of care after a long day in the duck blinds. The average 37 owner just kept on using the gun until he died and left it to the wife and kids. Often as not, if the kids hunted, they kept them to use too. The folks who bought them and shot them would not part with them, and neither would the kids if they hunted. The Ithaca 37 just happens to be one of those guns whose owners have told me it was their dad's gun or even their grand dad's as frequently as not. That also says something about the gun. They really are an American heirloom.

I got my 1960's VR deluxe series at a good price. However, the gun was a closet orphan and was even speckled with white paint. I had a 5 day look and the ok to fire it for function. It worked perfectly once I soaked the receiver in degreaser and blew the crud out with a high pressure air hose. Fortunately, the junk on it was congealed, dust infested oil and grease. The original owner had slathered protection in and on the gun. Everything cleaned off it nicely including all the paint. 90% of the original finish is still there with a few dings and scratches on the stock. I will add my share. This one is for hunting in the tough places and I know it will take the use. I thank my lucky stars that it did not go up in some attic in its original canvas case to quietly rust away from disuse and neglect like so many of these fine guns have. I'm the benificiery of some luck and a little elbow grease.

Most 1960's era 16 ga pump guns fell into disuse with the demise of duck hunting in the dry 1970's and the advent of steel shot in the early to mid 80's. However, the owner probably could not bring himself to part with his beloved 37. He died, and it was sold by the kids when they found it languishing in some closet corner of the parents' house. I will give it another life for as long as I live now. Its a keeper.

I'm sorry to hear you got took. Anyone who has traded for guns long enough has a similar story like yours and a lesson in gun trading. We all get taken sooner or later. I got mine early on. It was a genuine Winchester Model 73 38-40, dated 1887. It turned out to be a genuine piece of junk.

The good news is that it got stolen out of storage and the company had to pay me for a genuine collecter. It was a good thing they never got to lay eyes on it. It was on the storage roster and I showed them the blue book valuation. I Made a bit on the deal to make it less painful, but the lesson was learned. If it is way below book, and sounds too good to be true, it is. I was a bit less froggy after that one and learned to pick my shots so to speak. Laughing

My Dear 16gaguy,
As is most often the case, you are once again preaching to the chior. Yes I have traded guns probably before you were old enough to hold one.
Anyway, most of the things you said about the early Model 37's and how their owners treated them can be said for many makes of guns during that era.
Anyway, again, I will summarize my feelings by saying:
LONG LIVE THE WINCHESTER MODEL 12!!!!!!!!
XVI

*Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total*

Why? Are they making it again? Laughing

PS: Have you ever heard the old saying" Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Wink

PPS: Then you must have been using your first guns to hunt dinosaurs with 'cause I'm not exactly in the bloom of youth myself.

LONG LIVE THE MODEL 12!!!!!!!!
XVI

Member Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 446 Location: Wisconsin

I for one, am not interested in rants.
Your Post is a bit of bother in a Forum that was free of most of the crap that takes place on other Forums. I hope this Forum does not degenerate further.
I would ask, if a Moderator is viewing this thread to delete the thread. -Dick

Hey Bud,
What are you talking about? What "rant?" What happened to me and the Model 37 I described actually happened and it just left a sour taste in my mouth for them. I thought I explained and qualified myself.
As for 16gaugeguy and me, we're just having fun . I have nothing against him and I have never intentionally slammed him. I don't think he has any hard feelings toward me. 16gg has much knowledge. In fact all of us old guys think we know it all anyway. What better place than a forum to expose it.
There are lots of "my gun's better than your gun" posts on the forum and most of it is in fun.
Sorry if you were offended. Lighten up man.
XVI

Seems as if alot of us engage in "rants" oh well , I guess the moderator is just a big old slacker. He should be able to swoop down on us like that f-16 that got zarcowy(what the hell doI know about spelling middle east names, or spelling in general)
I, for one, am going to nolonger post dirvel, till he gets off his laurals and start weilding the mighty hammer of thor, and starts to smite the evil doers...............NOT Laughing

Gosh, I didn't think it was exactly a rant either, and I'm one of the staunchest M37 supporters on this board. Seems everybody has their favorite "man, that gun was a mistake" story. Mine also involves a M37. I had a 12G that would double -- that is, I would fire and upon cycling the action, the second shell would sometimes fire upon chambering (and no, my finger wasn't anywhere near the trigger).

After having it worked on a couple of times I finally gave up and got rid of the gun. Still, having owned several M37's before and since I consider it the best design of all the pump actions -- fast, accurate and reliable when it's against my shoulder.

As for this board, I really enjoy the interaction with 16Ga lovers. No real flaming here, just some good-natured ribbing -- as a previous poster noted, something like sitting around the lodge or the campfire after a good day of hunting. Of course, I hope we can keep those darned M12'ers at bay, coming in here and disparaging my beloved M37's by touting their overpriced, inferior guns Wink

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

Someone is a bit late to the party-the model 12 pretty much died in 1963.

Here is a different Ithaca 37 story. In 1952, my father was a USMC staff sergeant, sationed in New Orleans. In the "recreation locker" was an assortment of volleyballs, nets for same, footballs, baseballs, gloves etc, and two sorry old Ithaca 37s, both in truly deplorable condition. My father had access to some truly world class duck hunting, and used one of the 37s so regularly, and with such nearly 100% success, that his CO saw to it that the gun left with him for his next duty station (he still has the receipt, releasing USMC property to him) At his new duty station, Denver ( more fantastic hunting) he took such a ribbing for being a Sergeant, and hunting with such a canoe paddle, that one day he traded the gun for a new Browning A5.
He still has the A5. He has never been a good shot with it. A few years back we patterned it, and found the pattern is about 2 feet left of center, on a 35 yard shot. Do they all do that? No. But I know of two for sure that suffer this, and no longer have any in my collection. I ended up with a bad taste for all autoloaders, watching my dad put up with their nonsense over the years-they don't really seem to work all that well.
Today, I own two 37s, and a single 20 gauge model 12, along with a few other pumps of various makes. I never warmed up to the model 12, and will peddle it someday. When I read the story of the "five for five" gun, (second time, actually-that guy has been selling pimped model 12s for a while) I smiled-as a younger man, I went 10 for 10 one time, five grouse, and five woodcock, a Minnesota limit-with a Remington model 17('sort of a model 37 DNA contributer) rather beat up from use, which my dad told me never to sell after an afternoon like that.
I listened to him, for once. Glad I did.
Best,
Ted

Ted, your Remington 17 (20 ga. no doubt) is the same gun as a 37 Featherlight. There is no appreciable difference except that the 17 was made only as a 20 gauge. Ithaca appropriated the design for themselves when the pattern expired and sat on it until 1937 due to some slight technical changes Remington made and filed after the initial pattern.

I do not know why Remington never developed the gun further. Perhaps they had some type of gentlemens' agreement with John Browning. I think they were making an A5 knock off at the time. This may or may not have had something to do with it. It would make a nice post if someone knew their reasoning behind the decision to simply keep the model 17 a 20. It may not have been their first choice considering just how popular the 37 turned out to be.

By the way, did your dad ever share any stories with you about the gun's combat service record. It was a very popular weapon in WWII and Korea. I already posted about its use in Nam. I'm sure the guys would love to hear about anything you might care to share on the subject. I know I would.

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

My model 17 is one of the later ones, which had to be marked with Pederson's patent in addition to the Browning patent-I think that is the reason Ithaca held off until '37 to introduce their gun.
The 37s in the recreation locker were NOT war horses-they had full length barrels, chokes, and were not riot configured guns. Best guess Dad could surmize was they were civilian donated to the corps at the beginning of the big war, or procured for arial gunnery training around the same time. Finish was down to about 5%, no bluing or stock finish-so they could have been well used before they went to the corps. Single marking on receiver was "PROPERTY USMC". Both were 12s. Few details, I know. By the way, when he stormed a beach, Dad's weapon was a Garand-he was and is an M1 guy all the way.
Dad regrets trading the 37 to this day.
Best,
Ted

Yup. My dad saw action in the Pacific too. He was with the Americal Division. They served further East in the IndoChina and Burmese campaigns, especially along the coastal areas. He was with the 155 "Long Toms" on Guadalcanal in support of Howlin Mad's boys. the Toms kept the enemy artillery silent or at ineffective ranges after they arrived and also helped to keep the "Tokyo Express" destroyers and some of the smaller cruisers from becoming too bold at times. They made it possible for the Marines and Navy to hang on to Henderson field long enough to gain air superiority.

He was there when the Army was making the transition from the Springfield to the Garand. I believe that was just before the Marines did. It was the Guadalcanal campaign that convinced the Marine brass that the Garand was a superior infantry weapon. When he was redeployed to another theater, his outfit was told to leave all the Garands they had there for the Marines' use and were provided with the swapped out Springfields for a short time until they got reequipped at the new staging area. he said the men were not too thrilled with the idea but understood why.

He had a devout affection for the BAR squad weapon. he told me it tended to help keep the enemy ground troops at polite distances away from the gun implacements. It was faster and easier to deploy than a full sized machine gun, required less men to operate it (1),had a sufficient rate of fire, and had enough range to keep the smaller mortars from being effective if you could locate them. It was also about as accurate as a good rifle too and very dependable.

However, he also told me quite a few of the guys in the Burmese Campaign liked to carry shotguns if they could not get a .45 Thomson or grease gun. He mentioned that the Chinese Nationals also had a preference for the 37 Ithaca. They still make a copy to this day. The Chicoms used them in Korea so I'm told.

I know the marines prefer rifles. However, when things come down to spitting distances in thick cover as they so often did in the Burmese theater, there is something about buckshot and lots of it that provided the desired affect. He told me that three or four combat shotguns correctly deployed would shut an impromteau Banzai Charge down cold. That's probably why my home defense gun is a 12 ga pump with #4 buckshot. I figure it will do in a pinch.