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Square Load
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:52 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 16 Feb 2006
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Location: Flagstaff, AZ

Received the results on 16gg's favorite and probably soon to be my favorite 16ga target load. The load recipe is; Rem black GL case, CCI 209 primer, 16.5gr. Green Dot, Rem R16 wad w/ 1-.135 Nitro Card filler under shot, 7/8oz. shot. The test loads had a velocity of 1235fps and pressure was 9233psi. The load is also a very balanced and consistant load with only 14fps and 200psi variation from highest to lowest shot. The loads I have shot also burn very clean. Looks like a great target load for modern firearms. Reducing the powder charge to 16gr. should get 1200fps or slightly less.

Don't have any idea where the results would be with Puffed Wheat or Pinto beans. Razz

16gg, Thanks for mentioning this load as much as you did. It helped generate the action on my part. Wink

I hope I don't get in trouble with RWG and the Low Pressure Group for releasing the results of this load, but it has been kicked around pretty hard on this forum the past year.

Dennis
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Twice Barrel
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:58 pm  Reply with quote
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I would not hesitate to use this load in any Fox, Parker, Ithaca NID or LC Smith in good condition.

The recoil should be mild and the pressures are well within my personal limits for good quality vintage 16 gauge guns.

I don't think I would use this load in an Ithaca Flues based on their tendancy to crack due to structural weakness in the frame.
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Square Load
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:24 pm  Reply with quote
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TB,

You are certainly correct about the recoil being mild.

Dennis
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hoashooter
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:05 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 08 Nov 2005
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I'll give 'er a try Wink
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:18 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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This load will also work for a light hunting load. I'd up the powder charge to 17 grains and use 7-1/2 shot or even better, #7 pigeon shot. I used a 7/8 ounce #7 28 ga. reload for years with devastating results on early season pheasant inside 30 yards. This load in a 16 can be easily pushed to 1270 FPS which is almost 100 FFPS faster than I could move it in the 28. It should also be perfect for chukar, huns, smaller praire grouse and ruffs.

The lighter recoil will also help you get on a second bird quicker or get a second shot off quicker if the first was not quite enough. Following up with a nice fast 1 ounce load of #6 shot should be just the ticket for the first few weeks of the season.

Glad you like it. It shoots extremely well in every gun I've tried it in. Don't forget to try the same 16 to 16.5 grain load under 3/4 ounce of #9 shot and 2 card wads for skeet. Its like shooting a 28 ga with even less recoil and more wallup. Talk about fun. Yeah boy.
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:00 am  Reply with quote
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For use in vintage British or European guns, I would not boost the powder charge on that load for hunting use. In fact, I'd sooner see less pressure than that. Same hull and wad combo (or the SP-16) with 15.4 grains Unique, you can drop the pressure 1,000-1500 psi. Velocity will be in the 1160-1200 fps range. Makes a great target load, although these days I use mostly the Aussie Wins. You can get under 7,000 psi with those, velocity mid-1100's.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:16 am  Reply with quote
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Larry, aren't you referring to the Winchester 16 ga. 1 ounce load here? We are referring to here is a 16 ga. 7/8 ounce load. I always highly recommend Unique for 1 ounce loads. There is data available for 1 ounce loads using Green dot in some componants. However, I would not consider using Green dot for any load heavier than 7/8 ounce. Unique is just plain superior right across the board except for the ultra fast loads. Then Herco or slower powders take over.

The problem with light charges of Unique under 7/8 ounce of shot is inconsistant ignition and pressures. Its also dirty, sooty, etc. Unique works bestr here in the highest velocity ranges like 1300+ FPS. In hinge guns, light charges of unique is not a big problem. In auto loaders and pumps, it can be.

3/4 and 7/8 ounce 16 gauge loads for MODERN POST WWII SHOTGUNS can be safely loaded using a range of powders from Red Dot all the way down to Herco. However, Green Dot is in the center of this range and is best for these loads, in my experience. Even so, some folks like Red Dot for the 3/4 ounce load and it may just be superior for this light load. I have no problem here except that I can use the same 16 to 17 grain range charge of Green Dot in either weight shot charge and I don't get the Red Dot slap type recoil sensation.

I've been saying throughout my posts about this 7/8 ounce load that its meant for modern, post WWII guns designed to handle modern 2-3/4 ounce American loads. Never use this load in older guns meant for lower pressure ammo. That includes some older, more heavily used guns in less than ideal condition made just before WWII and rated for 2-3/4" loads. However, it never hurts to remind us in case some of the readers have come late to the thread. Thanks.
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:42 pm  Reply with quote
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Guy, I was speaking of the Aussie Winchester HULL, not the factory load--and yes, I do load 7/8 in it, over Unique. As tested by Tom Armbrust, avg velocity 1160 fps, avg pressure under 7,000 psi. Have had absolutely no problems with ignition, even in very cold weather. Can't comment on whether or not that load will work in an autoloader.

Red Dot . . . good luck if you've found a 7/8 oz load using RD that comes in at a reasonable pressure! I sent in a couple to be tested. One of them was over the SAAMI service pressure specs for the 16ga (11,500 psi). The other was just barely under, at 11,300. No thanks! At least not in the recipe I used, the lighter of which was 13.3 grains in a black Rem hull, R16 wad.

The problem with 16's is that there are a lot of old ones out there, as well as a lot of foreign ones. No issues whatsoever in a Citori, FAIR, Ithaca 37, Rem 870 or 1100, etc. But a very large number of pre-war American guns, and virtually all pre-war British/European guns, have a much lower service pressure ceiling than the current SAAMI 11,500 psi standard. It was about 1,000 psi under that on the 2 9/16" American guns, lower still on many foreign guns. And that's even true on quite a few post-WWII British/European guns, particularly those not specifically made for export to this country. The current European (CIP) standard proof of 850 bars equates to a service pressure of about 10,700 psi--again, under our American standard. Some foreign 16's will carry a "magnum" proof in the 11-1200 bars range, in which case it's fine to shoot any American factory ammo in them.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:37 am  Reply with quote
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I personally do not recommend Red Dot in any 16 gauge load over 3/4 ounce. However, there is data still out there for up to 1 ounce. I consistantly advise against this in any 16 ga gun, regardless of make or age. Its walking on the thin edge of safety.

This Red Dot based 1 ounce data is from before the time of one piece plastic wads and plastic csaes too. However, it was not that good a practice even with felt or card wads and paper cases. BUT, some folks think any published data is safe in any combination of componants for any 16 ga gun. To them I say "THINK AGAIN!!!" Don't do it.

However, for use in 3/4 ounce loads, made up of the proper componants, to be shot in modern, well maintained 16 ga. shotguns with 2-3/4 inch chambers and originally designed to handle up to 11,500 PSI, sober charges of up to 14.5 grains of Red Dot is fine, and won't hit over 9800 PSI. I prefer 16.5 grains of Green dot though as stated previously. Its even milder, has the same velocity, and less felt recoil too.
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Bronco
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:54 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 158
Location: NW Florida

The 7/8oz load I got off the Low Pressure Forum using GreenDot was pressure tested in the mid 7K psi. Over my chrono I was getting + or -- 1200fps which probably equates closer to 1150fps Haven't hunted with this load, but it will surely break the clays. Bob
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bigkev
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:22 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 79
Location: SE Pa

I developed a very nice 7/8 oz load using Int Clays with a Fiocchi hull. It should be on the 16 gauge group's reloading sheet. I like Int Clays for it's clean burning in all conditions.
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