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morngstar
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:11 pm  Reply with quote
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Hi, New here, Great posts/threads.

I am wondering if a Sweet Sixteen collectors association exists.

I have so many questions it hurts. I have educated myself about the history of the Sweet Sixteen but what I have discovered just raises more questions. Thanks
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Flues16
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:55 am  Reply with quote
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Morngstar, I can't answer your question, but if there is a Sweet Sixteen association I'm also ready to join!

The Sweet is a favorite of mine, I saw my first one in 1967 and I thought it was about the most beautiful gun I had ever seen. I never forget that and just got my first one earlier this year.

Welcome to the forum, I think there are many Sweet 16 owners here!

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skeettx
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:04 am  Reply with quote
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http://www.browningcollectors.com/

http://www.browningowners.com/viewforum.php?f=129

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fn16ga
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:02 am  Reply with quote
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morngstar

There is great reference book ,: BROWNING AUTO 5 SHOTGUNS , one of best books there is on the A5, there is alot of info on the Sweet 16.

Also check out forum on Shotgun World , Time line for The Browning Auto 5 http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.

Has info on there for the being production of the SWT 16 up to 1940
They started production in 1937

I have a 1939 unmolested Swt 16

I would be glad to try to answer any questions you might have, but I will be away from the computer this weekend, going Turkey hunting with mine.

I hope you enjoy yours as much as I do mine .
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morngstar
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:42 am  Reply with quote
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Where is the oldest Sweet Sixteen? I read in the Shirley/Vanderlinden book p.112 the letter introducing the Sweet Sixteen with an anticipated release date of May 10, 1937. The letter is dated February 15, 1937. The letter states, "Sales experiments were conducted on this new model during 1936..." Does anybody have any details about the "experiments?" I found a very rare, April, 1936 Sweet Sixteen, verified by Browning, but no details about it being part of an experiment. How many were released for the test market? Based on serial numbers for the A5 16 gauge, a total of 2349 were produced in 1936. How many were Sweet Sixteens?


Last edited by morngstar on Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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skeettx
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:13 am  Reply with quote
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Great questions Very Happy
Be sure to let us know when you contact the Browning Historian

http://www.browning.com/customerservice/qna/detail.asp?ID=197

Mike

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morngstar
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:54 am  Reply with quote
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I have done as much research as I know how to do and the best response I have gotten is "great questions?" Thanks skeettx Very Happy

I have come to the conclusion that I am in very short company with my questions and my 1936 Sweet or Sweetest Sixteen. I have talked to experts on the phone and also had my 1936 Sweet 16 appraised by an expert with a value of $350.00. They picked it apart with false information.

I talked to the Browning Historian and an expert at the Browning museum. They were professional and helpful but were short on answers.

I own 5 A5s. Three 16ga and two 12s. The youngest is a 1947 16 ga three shot. All unique and special to me. I knew my 1936 was a keeper but had no idea how special it may be. I cannot find anyone who owns one or has seen one. Does anyone here have a connection with HM Shirley or Anthony Vanderlinden? This gun has some very unique features.

I am about ready to write my own book Laughing

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1909 Browning A5 16ga
1936 Very Sweet Sixteen, 1937 Sweet Sixteen 3 Shot, 1938 Sweet Sixteen 3 Shot
1947 Sweet Sixteen Three Shot, 1947 A5 16ga Three Shot, 1947 Sweet Sixteen
1935 Superposed 3 inch chambered, 16ga conversion
Browning 725 16ga
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skeettx
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:36 am  Reply with quote
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AWESOME post
Let us know when you want us to proof read Shocked
Mike


Last edited by skeettx on Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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fn16ga
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:23 pm  Reply with quote
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I own 5 A5s. Three 16ga and two 12s. The youngest is a 1947 16 ga three shot. All unique and special to me. I knew my 1936 was a keeper but had no idea how special it may be. I cannot find anyone who owns one or has seen one. Does anyone here have a connection with HM Shirley or Anthony Vanderlinden? This gun has some very unique features.

I am about ready to write my own book Laughing[/quote]


Post some picture and tell me about the unique features , I can get in touch with H M Shirley through a friend of mine .
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morngstar
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:43 am  Reply with quote
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The three sweet sisters left to right or top to bottom are: 1936 Sweet Thang w/solid rib, 1947 Three Shot no rib, 1947 early 2 3/4" post WWII Sweet Sixteen solid rib.

All three have the original sales details documented and issued on Browning letterhead.

Close ups are the 1936 Sweet Sixteen


Last edited by morngstar on Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:24 pm; edited 2 times in total

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1909 Browning A5 16ga
1936 Very Sweet Sixteen, 1937 Sweet Sixteen 3 Shot, 1938 Sweet Sixteen 3 Shot
1947 Sweet Sixteen Three Shot, 1947 A5 16ga Three Shot, 1947 Sweet Sixteen
1935 Superposed 3 inch chambered, 16ga conversion
Browning 725 16ga
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skeettx
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:29 pm  Reply with quote
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morngstar
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:34 pm  Reply with quote
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fn16ga wrote:
Post some picture and tell me about the unique features , I can get in touch with H M Shirley through a friend of mine .


Thanks for the offer to contact H M Shirley.

I emailed the pictures and followed up with a phone conversation to a highly esteemed historian. He was consulted in writing the S/V book and provided some of the pictures in the S/V book.

He cautioned me about the term proto-type. He shared the classic documented "mark" for true Browning proto-types.

He then offered his opinion that my gun is one of the experimental Sweet Sixteen sent out for the test market in 1936. His opinion was based on my description, the photos, the letter from Browning, the S/V book, and his vast intimate experience with A5. As far as value he said it is not valued as a collectable in price guides. He said he would add a "Premium" 25% increase to its current appraised value. I took it to Cabelas in Mitchell, SD. It was appraised at $375.00. Up $25 from my previous appraisal. That is with the discounts for condition, not having a vent rib and having a 2 9/16" chamber. Wink

My 1936 first edition Sweet Sixteen is worth $375.00 plus 25% $93.75 for a grand total of $468.75. Add my finders fee and its yours. Laughing

PS. On a serious note, the museum historian also informed me that HM Shirley passed away last year. I was genuinely saddened by that news. (This turned out to be a rumor, he is alive and well. At least he was the last time I spoke with him.)


Last edited by morngstar on Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

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1909 Browning A5 16ga
1936 Very Sweet Sixteen, 1937 Sweet Sixteen 3 Shot, 1938 Sweet Sixteen 3 Shot
1947 Sweet Sixteen Three Shot, 1947 A5 16ga Three Shot, 1947 Sweet Sixteen
1935 Superposed 3 inch chambered, 16ga conversion
Browning 725 16ga
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fn16ga
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:41 pm  Reply with quote
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From looking at the pictures looks to be totally unmolested. If all numbers match .

As far as the the engraving pattern it is exactly the same as my 1939 sweet sixteen and the rest of the pre-war American market sweets I have seen.

If it falls in the serial number date range of 1936 , It would be quite rare , as they only made a total of 2350 16ga's that year . It would make sense that it is one of the test market guns , the question is how rare ?,who knows ?as they did not differentiate by serial number between the standard 16ga's and the sweet sixteens . Seems with the solid rib barrel , that would make it that more of more or a rare bird.

What a great find !

My friend suggested that you direct any further questions that you can"t find the answer to in the Auto 5 book, to the Browning Collectors Association , he said if it pertained to the A5 that they would ask H. M. Shirley to answer them .


You should also post this over at Shotgun Worlds browning forum .
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fn16ga
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:54 pm  Reply with quote
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I was posting my last post at the same time as you were and had just got off the phone with my friend ,he said he had not spoke with Mr Shirley in over a year . Apparently he is not aware that Mr Shirley has passed.

Sounds like you found out more than I did .


Last edited by fn16ga on Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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morngstar
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:57 pm  Reply with quote
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fn16ga wrote:
I was posting my last post at the same time as you were and had just got off the phone with my friend Bill, he said he had not spoke with Mr Shirley in over a year . Apparently he is not aware that Mr Shirley has passed.

Sounds like you found out more than I did .


It seems to be one of the facts of life....the more I discover, the less I know.

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1909 Browning A5 16ga
1936 Very Sweet Sixteen, 1937 Sweet Sixteen 3 Shot, 1938 Sweet Sixteen 3 Shot
1947 Sweet Sixteen Three Shot, 1947 A5 16ga Three Shot, 1947 Sweet Sixteen
1935 Superposed 3 inch chambered, 16ga conversion
Browning 725 16ga
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