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Member Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 1522 Location: NH

All these problems with these new guns and yet, I can take the forends off my 75 year old Sterlingworth or 60 year old Ithaca and put them back on with no problems. Smile

Go figure.

I've owned a few citoris in my time, both new and used. I guess I should have asked if the forend was snug fitting, or just plain hard to assemble. Snug is O.K.. If you can hit it with the palm of your hand as the clerk did, then it is probably fine and will work in over time. Hopwever, if it is too uncomfortable to slap hard enough with your bare hand to get it to lock up, and you have to resort to a hammer, then I'd be real cautious and personally would opt for Browning to correct it.

I also would go slow if I were new to assembling a citori, because the forend can be a might tricky to align with the action block before snapping the latch closed. Us old hands tend to forget this fact because we have done it a thousand times and its second nature to us now, kinda like tying our shoes...which, come to think of it, ain't so easy anymore due to the giant doughnut I have growing around my middle. I never realized that doughnuts could take root on your tummy and reproduce. Will wonders never cease. Smile

I can sympathize about a new Browning gun fitted so poorly that it doesn't work properly. My new Citori White Lightning had a very stiff top lever. Nearly dislocated my thumb trying to open it each time. I spoke to the dealer, he said to shoot a couple hundred rounds and it would work out the burrs in the metal. I did, and it didn't help. When I brought it back a couple of months later, he did what he should have the first time as a factory authorized repair depot and polished the action. The gun now works fine, but it did take some of the "shine" off of owning a new, fairly expensive gun. I used to think Browning was "the best there is" - now I think I'll shop for a nice Spanish gun with more care taken in manufacturing. Sad

Member Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 358 Location: Houston

My gun worked itself out after taking the forend off and putting it on again maybe a dozen times. Now it snaps on nicely and the latch pops right into place.

the more I here about new gun Citori Problems, the more I am convinced that Miroku and Browning will be discontinuing the line soon. What we may be seeing is a combination of worn out tooling, and the process of using up parts in stock.

It is human nature to set aside parts that are not quite right for correction or disposal later. As these parts accumulate, production management looks for ways of salvaging them and using them up. This requires more hand fitting and corrective labor time, which puts more pressure on the assembly personal. So corners get cut and quality suffers to some degree. Some parts that should be more carefully fitted get forced into place, some wood that should perhaps be rejected gets pressed into service and given an extra coat of varnish to cover up the flaws. And so on. tooli ng that should be replaced gets used in an effort to avoid the cost of replacement for a production line in its final days.

I've seen this phenomenon in many different lines of guns over the years. This is not to say that the new citori guns are bad, they will simply have more little problems that may work themselves out or might need some minor repair/refit.

With a few exceptions, the 20-30 Citori O/Us I've owned and shot over the years have been exceptional values for the money and fine guns in general. Out of that number, about 30% have been perfect, 63% have had very minor problems that either self corrected or needed a little polishing or such, maybe 5% had to be repaired out of the box by the folks at Arnold to be put right, and 2% needed replacement or a refund. I'd say those figures are at least on par if not better with any line of mass produced guns I've ever seen--certainly better than Winchester's or Rmington's track record from my experience.

One thing more, in all that time, Browning's repair and service staff have been the friendliest, and most accomodating group of folks I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with. Ruger's personnel used to be as good but, the company's attitude has slipped noticably over the last decade. With one notable exception, I wish I could say the same for R and W staff. In one case, a now retired Remington service agent went way out of the way for me on a 700 BDL warranteed rifle repair/replacement request and delivered a beautifuly stocked replacement gun that shot like a dream. Nearly every other repair request required pulling teeth to get the warranteed work done correctly and cost effectively with both these companies. Some guns had to be returned 3 or 4 time to be put right.

I'll stand by my opinion that Citori shotguns have continually been about the best value for the money for both new and used guns since they hit the market back in 1975 or so. They remain my favorite shotgun gun now, and probably for the rest of my days.

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

Well, the Citori 16's were meant to be "discontinued", and I think already have been. The modern reincarnation of the Citori 16 never was a Browning catalog item. The guns were ordered by a few dealers, first in a lot of 1,000, then I understand there was a repeat of that order because the initial order sold out. I owned a couple of them, no problems with either. I expect they've maintained a parts inventory, but it might not be as easy to get one fixed under warranty as it is a "standard" production line gun.

Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Posts: 25 Location: Somerset County, NJ

Take those Brownings out and start shooting them instead of whacking them with mallets. It is not an unusual occurence, though. I just got one of my Superposed guns back from Art's after having the action rebuilt and had to do the same thing until I put 200-300 rounds through it.

JCM

Yup, you are right again Larry. the original 16 ga. citori was produced from 1987 through 1989. All were lightning models. However, the 1987 guns were mistakenly coded as standard hunting models in the serial number.

Bill Hicks had about a 750-1000 built in 1994. I've got one of the Grade III guns from that run. These two production runs have the old long tang trigger guard w/ the two screws into the bottom side of the stock grip. Some were also standard steel framed superlights.

There were two runs of about a thousand each in the last 5 years. These guns are all short tang models except for the superlight feathers which still have a long tang. All the others are basically lightnings in various grades from gr I, white lightning, lightning feather, Gr III and Gr. VI.

Total production is under 7000 for all 16 ga. Citoris as of this date. However, I would not be surprized to see a very small run made in some kind of special configuration like the super lightning or such within a year or so to use up the rest of the frames, barrels, and forend hangers.These guns will probably be offered as "Shot Show Specials" like they were last year and the price will be way up on them. However, that is pure speculation on my part. It just seems logical based on the past history of discontinued gun models. They have to use up as many parts as possible
However, when I offered my opinion that the Citori is now slated for discontinuance, I meant all of them. Their replacement is already on the market in the Cynergy. I'll bet they will be history inside two years.

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

Guy, I was in on the Cynergy "test drive" along with a bunch of other outdoor writers. Frankly, I'd be surprised to see the Cynergy replace the Citori. For one thing, the Cynergy in smaller bores is in the works, but has not yet hit the market--or at least not that I've seen. The other factor is the radically modern design of the Cynergy, which flat turns some people off. I think Browning has a good combination going with the Citori and the Cynergy, the Citori for shooters that like a more traditional design, the Cynergy for those that like the ultra-modern. But the Cynergy is not exactly flying off the shelves in gun shops from what I've seen, which is another reason I doubt it will replace the Citori--unless they offer the Cynergy with a traditional stock and forend, trigger guard, etc. Those changes would not be all that hard because they're largely superficial. But Browning certainly did not "sell" the Cynergy to the outdoor press as the replacement for the Citori.

Guest

My White Lightning 12 and Gran Lightning 20 acted the same way. By squeezing the fore end firmly to the barrels, light pressure on the latch was all that was required to lock it. Sometimes it would snap shut on it's own. It got better with time/use. I would not use a mallet, that is way too tight.

Regarding the other topic.......the day that the Cynergy futuristic Darth Vader ray gun replaces the Citoris is the day Browning loses my business forever. Call me a purist or old, that's just the way it is. Cheers.