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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  Anyone feel disadvanted wtih 2-1/2" shells?
hoser
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:24 pm  Reply with quote



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Or for most hunting, is there no big disadvantages (other than shell cost and availability)? Rolling Eyes
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hunshatt
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:45 am  Reply with quote
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They are all I shoot, thru all my 16's. Seem to kill everything just fine. Big up side is my hunting vest has the correct shells in it all the time, nomatter if I grab the 189? austrian hammer, or the pheasent killin lazer beamed Merkel 1620, and the other in betwen stuff.
Normaly the RST is my go to brand, but I've shot some of th gamebore stuff as well.
You are correct, they do cost a bit more, but I just rationalize that I can allways drink 2 fewer bottles of scotch over the course of th season(yea that will never happen)
Plus I normaly just steal them from TJC.
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henrik
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:03 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Jul 2006
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Location: Finland

I have a 1927 A5, chambered for 2 ½ inch shells. Nothing wrong with the killing power, but where I live it's hard to find ammo, and non-toxic I have not found at all yet. Guess I'll have to buy another 16 ga. shotgun, chambered for 2 3/4 inch shells, or start reloading.
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TJC
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:59 am  Reply with quote
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I go along with Huns on this. The 2.5" shells will take care of anything you need to do upland wise, at least here on the East coast. I also use the RST and have found them to do quite well. In fact, I'm putting together an order with a few for a number of cases of RST 2.5" #5's along with a few cases of other shot sizes. Hey Huns, let's get rolling on this. LOL I don't think they are up and running on the #5's yet.

All that said, I do use other rounds at times. Mainly because of availability and price. I've been shooting 100-150 rds a week of the Rem Game Loads in 7.5's for trap. I did use a box of RST 7.5's in 2.5" for trap a few weeks ago with no difference in breaking birds. I think I went 22 or 23 that run.

Use the 2.5's with confidence. Wink

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Slidehammer
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:13 am  Reply with quote
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I shot a lot of the 2 9/16" loads in my youth as it was quite common to find them on the shelf in lieu of. or along with 2 3/4".
I actually preferred the shorter high base version then as it was a 3 dram 1240fps load instead of the 3 1/4 dram 1295fps load in the "longer" hull. The 2 9/16" loads stayed around for sometime as it was the standard length early on and early Brownings and Winchesters as well we so chambered. I still sometimes trim 2 3/4" back to 2 9/16" even today, even with my early Winchesters all now with 2 3/4" chambers. Some of the lighter 7/8oz and 1oz loads with dense powder fit better sans any filler with today's available wads.

To answer your question I never saw a lick of difference between 2 9/16" loads and the 2 3/4" loads be it clays or game and I would think another 1/16" down to 2 1/2" wouldn't change anything either.

Slidehammer
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hoashooter
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:26 am  Reply with quote
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They are efficient killers when used within their means---Anyone with enough sense to use the shorter shell will usually knows when/where to use/not use this load.
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clayflingythingy
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:27 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 311

I shoot the Gamebores in a short chambered A5. They have a one ounce payload and they pattern much better than I thought they would (I had been brainwashed by all the stuff I had read over the years that stated fibre wads patterened poorly compared to plastic wads). I get honest modified patterns out of my modified barrel (wish it were I/C).

As to cost, well, I have to travel to hunt which means gas, food, etc so that the cost of a $10 box of shells is not a significant contribution to my hunting costs. Heck, one breakfast at Cracker Barrel is more than a box of shells!
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:26 am  Reply with quote
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To me, the 2-1/2" load lacks the availability, the versatility, and the potential of the 2-3/4" shell. I carry a 16 simply because I can cover all the bases needed for all upland shooting with but one gauge in an easy to carry and effective to shoot package. I can reload very effective 3/4 ounce game loads all the way up to 1-1/4 ounce short magnums. I can't think of any upland situation I can't handle with this load weight range. I can also adequately cover quite a bit of waterfowling needs as well as turkey hunting and deer hunting well enough.

The 2-1/2 inch shell can be fired safely in any 16 ga gun, but the 2-3/4 inch shell cannot in quite a few cases due mostly to the proof limits on some of these old guns. This should not be viewed as an advantage. It is actually a restriction if you happen to have only 2-1/2 inch chambered gun. However, for most light to moderate duties, the 2-1/2 inch shell is sufficient.
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:30 pm  Reply with quote
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Other than in EXTREMELY rare cases (like pre-1900 guns with very short, sharply tapered forcing cones), 2 3/4" HULLS can be used in 2 1/2" guns, without any significant increase in pressure--at least not due to the extra length of the hull. The Brits and Europeans sell quite a few 67 or 67.5MM shells which are loaded with the old 2 1/2" guns in mind, and you'll often find that the fired length of those hulls is the same as our nominally 2 3/4" American hulls.

What you can certainly do, if you have a short-chambered 16 (or originally short-chambered 16 that has been lengthened) and you want to work up some light reloads, is join the 16ga reloading group, and work up low pressure reloads in standard American hulls. They have all kinds of reloading recipes that have been pressure tested. Many of these are light loads (like 7/8 oz, next to impossible to find in American factory ammo anyhow) which produce lower pressure (but decent velocity) than just about all the factory 2 1/2"-67MM stuff. Easy on both the shoulder and the gun, if you're shooting targets for example.

What you don't want to do is stuff American factory 2 3/4" shells in short chambered (or originally short chambered) guns, regardless of gauge. And that is a "limiting" factor with a 2 1/2" 16--or any other 2 1/2" gun--if you're out hunting and didn't pack a sufficient supply of shells. But as long as you plan ahead, that should not be a problem--even if you want to stick with factory "shorties", although 2 1/2" 16's are not the easiest loads to find. And you are limited to an ounce of shot, or just a bit more.
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Birdawg
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:30 pm  Reply with quote
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So what is the verdict on using say, rem 1 oz 2 3/4" game loads in a short chambered Fox 16?
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TJC
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:51 pm  Reply with quote
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BD,
Good question. I have the same situation and I use 2.5" shells in it. I figure with the age and the chambers, I'll play it safe. Wink I only use it a few times a year. The other times I use either the Merkel or the Citori Feather. I can stuff anything I want in those 2 and as soon as it gets here, the other Merkel. Smile

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Birdawg
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:09 pm  Reply with quote
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I tend to want to play it safe myself, but I keep hearing it is ok to shoot the low pressure factory loads so I wondered others opinions, I have a couple of old guns with opened chambers and I still keep the loads lite.
thanks.
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:11 am  Reply with quote
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BD, the problem is that even "light" American factory loads (in terms of velocity and shot charge) may not be low pressure. And all you know about American factory loads is that they meet SAAMI standards. So even those 1 oz factory loads MAY generate up to 11,500 psi. That's a bit more than what was standard back when your Fox was made. That being said, American guns tend to be stouter than Brit/European guns, and there are a lot of them out there that have been shooting American factory loads for years without a problem. In fact, standard procedure at Savage, after they bought Fox, was to lengthen the chambers on any short-chambered Fox that was sent to the factory for any sort of repair or modification.

If you do a lot of shooting with a light 16, you'll definitely appreciate lighter loads, like 7/8 oz reloads. And they're also easier on the gun. But if you're just shooting a few boxes a year, the factory 1 ozers will probably work out fine in that Fox.
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TJC
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:08 pm  Reply with quote
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Larry Brown wrote:
BD, the problem is that even "light" American factory loads (in terms of velocity and shot charge) may not be low pressure. And all you know about American factory loads is that they meet SAAMI standards. So even those 1 oz factory loads MAY generate up to 11,500 psi. That's a bit more than what was standard back when your Fox was made. That being said, American guns tend to be stouter than Brit/European guns, and there are a lot of them out there that have been shooting American factory loads for years without a problem. In fact, standard procedure at Savage, after they bought Fox, was to lengthen the chambers on any short-chambered Fox that was sent to the factory for any sort of repair or modification.

If you do a lot of shooting with a light 16, you'll definitely appreciate lighter loads, like 7/8 oz reloads. And they're also easier on the gun. But if you're just shooting a few boxes a year, the factory 1 ozers will probably work out fine in that Fox.


I agree 100% but I figure if all I'm going to shoot is a few to 8 boxes of shells a year, I'll buy a case of 2.5" shells and stay for sure where it is safe to play. Wink
I'll use the other newer guns to shoot the 2.75" and heavy hibrass loads.

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