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Sebascodegan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:36 am  Reply with quote
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It occurs to me that I can't take for granted my two sons (4 & 6) are going to be interested in hunting and the shooting sports just because I am.

After a PM discussion on this subject with a fellow 16 Gauger, I asked the older of my two sons if, when he was old enough, would he like to shoot a gun. His reply was "I'd like to try it once".... Not the enthusiastic "YES!" I was hoping for. (The good news is both LOVE reloading! - obviously with me guiding their every move).

Thus begs the questions:

Have any of you been through the raising of young'uns to enjoy the shooting sports and did you find anything really seemed to "bring 'em into it in a big way"?

What sort of gun types would be suggested; auto, pump, single shot, or double? Obviously as the boys mature, they'd see the obvious virtues of shooting the 16g Wink , but should 20g be the "starting" gauge?

Boy Scouts. Is that still a good way to get the interest and share it with their friends?

Does liability prevent showing one of the boys' friends gun safety and handling, even with the parents permission?

I'd love to hear your comments and suggestions.

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Dave Miles
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:45 am  Reply with quote
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If it were me, I'd be starting the 6 year old with a BB gun now.
Used under your supervision. You can start teaching him the rules of safe gun handling, and how to aim the gun. When he first hits that pop can in the back yard or basement, he should be all excited about it. When he gets a little older, move him up to a 22 rifle. You have to keep it fun, simple, and exciting. Also, stop as soon as they get bored. Don't push them. Have them help you clean your guns. Take them to your local gun club for a 10 minute tour, while the guys are shooting. They like reloading because it's something new and different. Plus they're doing it with you.
Just relax, spend time with them, and you'll do fine.
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Sebascodegan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:59 am  Reply with quote
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Thanks Dave M. Good thoughts there.

How about once bird season starts? I don't see many birds when I go out. Many times none. Do/did you bring a kid along before they were shooting? How does one build on the experience without risking boring him for lack of "excitement"?

The question's out there to anyone.

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:09 pm  Reply with quote
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A lot depends on each individual kid's age, level of maturity, temperment, and natuarl inclination. Some kids are ready at 7 years of age to start learning to shoot with adult supervision. Others need more time. Some kids love to tag along just to be with you. Often those kids will ask if they can try shooting when they are ready. Others might need some encouragement after having been given plenty of time to grow into the desire. Some kids just can't stand the idea of killing game but would love shooting clays. Others just don't care about shooting. Each to his own.

Too many parents, particularly fathers with a certain passion for a particular sport or pastime try to push their sons and/or daughters into following in their footsteps. This can be a big, costly mistake. I've seen several examples of this. It never works out. The kid ends up resenting the pressure brought about by the time and money the father or grandfather spends (and often regularly mentions) and ends up drawing away from the source of the pressure.

I know of one particular situation where the boy loved clay target shooting at first, and really was developing into a fine shooter. However, his mentor was a Type A++ that just would not be satisfied with the kid's natural developement. The kid was expected to win at all costs. This guy spent way too much money on equipment and training fees, and pushed like a dozer. The pressure was too much. Finally, the kid imploded, his scores went in the crapper, and he's gone. Too bad. some day, I hope he finds his own way back. He's a fine kid with an overbearing dumbass for a mentor. Now, he needs to get away from the game and concentrate on other things for a while.

I know of another kid who is a nice young man. His father loves deer hunting. He took his son on a hunt, made the kid shoot a deer, and then handed him the gutting knife to dress his kill. the kid made the initial cut, then spent the next 20 minutes emptying his own guts onto the ground. The father was both shamed and embarressed in front of his buddies. I felt sorrier for the kid. He's just not cut out for this much "manliness" at his age and considering his temperment. It would have been better to let him tag along and aborb the process at his own pace. He might have truned into a fine hunter. Now he's just another traumatized kid.

I can also tell you stories about other and opposite situations including my own. My dad was a baseball nut. He wanted me to be the next Ted Williams. He even took me to meet the man. However, I was more interested in fishing, hunting, and exploring the woods, fields and streams that once existed in the town I grew up in. My dad did not abide hunting, fishing, or fire arms, so I learned to shoot a bow before I was 10. By the time I was 14, I was deadly with it too as well as a fairly accomplished hunter and angler. I even learned to gut and cook my catch before i reached puberty. It was just how I was; it all came to me as natural as breathing. My Dad just would not see it, and thought I should be spending more time playing ball.

Ironically enough, it was Ted Williams who gave me my first flycasting lesson a few years later at the old Boston sportsman's show. I eventually became an accomplished caster, and have spent many fine days doing so.
I still love fly casting for striper and blues here on the Cape.

Baseball?...well, I could play it well enough, but never good enough for Dad. Needless to say, I'd grab the fishing rod and be gone to the lake before Dad got up. I'd stay until dark thirty, go home, catch some more bait with a flashlight on the lawn, turn in, and do it again the next day. Dad rarely saw me during my summer vacations before I started working for the summer. I never seemed to go hungry either.

I hope my ramblings help you. godd luck. Its not easy being a parent, nor is it always easy being a kid. But a wise parent makes it a whole lot better.
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Dave Miles
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:18 pm  Reply with quote
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I carried a BB gun while hunting with my Dad, from the time I was about 6.
He would constantly remind me of were the barrel was pointing, or how I was carrying the gun. I did the same with my now 16 year old son.
Keep hunting trips short, little legs can't walk forever.
Use this time to teach them about the different kinds of trees, birds you see, animal tracks, and nature in general. Explain to them the beauty of a wild flower that they might not see anyplace else. Pack a sack lunch, set in the woods and enjoy each others company. You'd be amazed at the questions they will ask, ounce you awaken them to they're surroundings.
Like I said before, just keep it simple, make it fun and interesting, call it quits when they get bored. You might loose some bird hunting time for awhile, but you'll gain two hunting partners for years to come.
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Sebascodegan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:40 pm  Reply with quote
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16gg,

I'm with you all the way on the "no pressure". I just want to make sure I provide the opportunities. Like you, I came from a non hunting family though plinking was encouraged. My brothers and I had the benefit of the local boy's club NRA, but I don't know if that sort of offering is still out there at least in my area (mid-coast Maine).

I'm guess I'm just looking for any tricks or experiences that seemed to make it extra fun for the kids.


Dave M.,

BB Guns and hikes with sack lunches. Sounds like a wonderful combination! Reminds me of when I was a kid. Very Happy

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- Gene Hill
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22-250
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:04 pm  Reply with quote
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Sebascodegan wrote:
It occurs to me that I can't take for granted my two sons (4 & 6) are going to be interested in hunting and the shooting sports just because I am.

After a PM discussion on this subject with a fellow 16 Gauger, I asked the older of my two sons if, when he was old enough, would he like to shoot a gun. His reply was "I'd like to try it once".... Not the enthusiastic "YES!" I was hoping for. (The good news is both LOVE reloading! - obviously with me guiding their every move).

Thus begs the questions:

Have any of you been through the raising of young'uns to enjoy the shooting sports and did you find anything really seemed to "bring 'em into it in a big way"?

What sort of gun types would be suggested; auto, pump, single shot, or double? Obviously as the boys mature, they'd see the obvious virtues of shooting the 16g Wink , but should 20g be the "starting" gauge?

Boy Scouts. Is that still a good way to get the interest and share it with their friends?

Does liability prevent showing one of the boys' friends gun safety and handling, even with the parents permission?

I'd love to hear your comments and suggestions.




Hello: It sounds like you are taking a good approach on teaching your children. I’ve been involved for the past 30+ years in Hunter Ed and various shooting programs and I would suggest a few things. Among one of the first things, I would get them into a Hunter Ed class even though they may not be old enough to be certified and sit through it with them. Ask the instructor if it’s is OK to do this and you will more than likely get a “by all means” and probably will not charge you any fees. This gives the children a chance to listen to other people instruct firearm safety besides their parents and they seem to absorb it in better. Pretty much the same applies to instructing a spouse also. Laughing
As for their age, depends on their physical ability to handle a firearm. The main problem you’re going to have is the fit of the long gun whether it is rifle or shotgun and the fit will change the older they get. Also at first will be the weight of the gun. You may also want to get involved with an event that caters to children that includes the shooting sports. We have been doing a program for the National Wild Turkey Federation Jakes Day that introduces children to the shotgun sports. Among our shotguns that we use at these events, besides O/U’s and regular size shotguns, we have 2 Remington 870’s & an 1100 with stocks cut at different lengths shorter than even the youth models and barrels 24 & 26 “. These are 12 gauges and we use 7/8 oz #8 extra light loads so it doesn’t beat the heck out of the younger shooters and ruin a new experience for them. I’m in the process now of acquiring a stock for one of my Mod 12 16 gauges to cut it down for youths. We also teach women shotgun at different events and with my loads of ¾ oz *8, 15.8 Int Clays with a sg-20L wad and Rem case these 16 gauge loads have minimal recoil. The women love it. There’s been more than a few that want to take my 16 ga o/u Dehaan home. But the most important thing is that they have had a positive experience and return for more shooting and develop their skills.
IMHO, putting a “youngin” in a smaller gauge than 12 or 16, just hampers their ability to hit more targets off the bat thus creating less enthusiasm at first. We load 12 ga 7/8 oz #8 loads with Clays powder and Federal Gold Medal Cases with a Federal wad. These are very mild to shoot and do well from the 16 yard line. Now if you really want to “turn them on”, shoot paper shells and let them smell the empties.
Good Luck to you!
Robert
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Foursquare
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:19 pm  Reply with quote
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You could have knocked me over with a feather the first time my kids asked if they could watch the Eddie the Eagle video I got from the NRA. This was when they were about 3 and 5, but they really enjoyed that 20 minute or so vid.
Another big hit was a trip to a very informal range, using soda cans, plastic bottles as targets. As they became better shots we moved up to static clay birds and charcoal briquets. They'll shoot all day if the target gives them feedback, but nothing bores them faster than shooting at paper.
They each have an air rifle that they enjoy using in the back yard.

The scouts is still a good intro to shooting but they tend to start them too late. I'd get them into it just as soon as they prove to your satisfaction that their gun handling skills are up to snuff.

I know I'll get static for this, but I deliberately didn't teach them the 10 or 12 gun safety rules that are the norm in every hunter safety or NRA course I've taken. It's just too much for kids (or me) to remember.
Instead I had them memorize the 4 rules as taught by Jeff Cooper. Much easier to remember, and those 4 rules cover it all.

I guess in summary, keep it simple and fun.
Pete

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sportsman16
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:53 pm  Reply with quote
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Like the other guys said, I would suggest just getting them out in the field with you. Start them with a BB gun or 22 and work their way up. Dont give them too big of a gun too soon though, if they complain of the kick then back down.

I have nothing against the scouts, but dont really think it is worthwhile investment of your kids time if you want them to learn about guns and hunting. You could teach them more in a one good fall of hunting than they would learn in their career in scouts. I know this is off topic, but it seems that too many kids are forced in scouts so their overbearing parents can say "my kid is an eagle scout".

Steve
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ColoradoPaul
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:30 pm  Reply with quote
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The wing shooting instructor at our local sporting clays spot keeps a Daisy BB gun that he has taken the sights off of handy for kids. He has the kids shoot, from a down position (no aiming!), at spent hulls. His (and others) theory is that this is a great way to introduce children to the basic point/don’t aim mechanics of shotgunning. One young girl I watched, she couldn’t have been older than 7, could really knock them down. She could have cleaned up if she’d been the betting type; maybe with a shotgun when she’s older!

Anyway, it’s something to consider
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hoashooter
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:14 pm  Reply with quote
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Slow and steady---I know of one club member who pushed too much gun on his boy --now the kid flinches severly even when shooting a .22 Embarassed Embarassed Evil or Very Mad
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Wolfchief
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:24 pm  Reply with quote



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I was a 4-H Shooting Instructor for shotgun for about 4 years. Our little club was located in a very rural northern Indiana county. I became a certified NRA Shotgun Instructor, and the 4-H requires that a child pass a Hunter Safety class before they can enroll in the program. That's of course a good idea. I had the dubious distinction of being the sole instructor for a group of about 12 children my first couple of years, and my son was in the group, just 10 years old at the time.

The kids were country kids and several had fired guns under their parents or grandparents' "supervision" so we had some "unlearning" to do from a safety standpoint. When should you start them shooting? I think it depends on the child's maturity level.....if you can leave them at home for a short time to watch a younger sibling; if you can send them to the corner store with a modest list of items to get, and they can do it and manage the money; if they can be depended on to do their chores (feeding pets/livestock, doing the dishes, etc.), if they take care of their personal property/space and respect that of others, they MIGHT be ready to learn to shoot.

I definitely agree with the "don't push" theory---these days, kids have to feel that a new activity is mostly their idea. If they get bored, feed them some ice cream and try again on a different day. It didn't take long for me to learn that, though the course's "Bookwork" was mandatory, nobody really got interested until it was time to actually shoot ! The club acquired (at my expense) two Remington 870 20 ga. YOUTH models, and I allowed club members to bring their own guns (after I visually inspected and approved them). We found donors, including Winchester and Wal-Mart, who cut the price on ammo for us. We had a fine time in our club those four years !

We started slow, but over a typical summer, after the mandatory familiarization/safety training, we'd start by shooting at stationary clays. Then, we'd shoot at clays thrown from an Outers trap. We graduated to real trap and skeet shooting, and twice, we even shot sporting clays at a small range owned by a friend. The kids loved the actual shooting---it differed a liitle from a typical 4-H project, which in many cases these days, is a whole lot of bookwork and making posters. We also had the kids get a feel for shotshell reloading, under my supervision and using my MEC 600 JR.'s.

And my wife and I would finish the project in the fall, with a session on deer hunting from a treestand---safety precautions, sighting in a slug gun (we actually did help our deer hunting kids do that), and range estimation--with a lot of cider and doughnuts thrown in. My 10 year old has turned into a 24 year old who has hunted ducks, pheasants, geese, antelope, rabbits, and turkey with me. He is an Eagle scout and a fine young man. I wouldn't trade that four year time span for ANYTHING.

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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:46 pm  Reply with quote
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I would agree with sportsman 16 that if the primary goal was to encourage a young man to be an outdoorsman, the Boy Scouts may not be the best choice. But for depth and breadth of experience and opportunity, teaching a boy about honor, duty, and responsibility, and providing a sense of self-worth based on personal accomplishment (rather than 'affirmation') in a society in which many boys grow up without dads, I think nothing is better than Scouting-especially if the Charter Organization is a local church.

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Sebascodegan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:30 pm  Reply with quote
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Holy cow! I go away from the list for a few hours and come back to all sorts of great accounts and suggestions.

A lot of it brought back memories of what I liked and didn't like as a kid learning about guns.

Really, I think I'll go back through and make notes on some what's been posted here. I appreciate it folks.

Keep 'em coming!

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- Gene Hill
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bigric
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:52 pm  Reply with quote



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When I was probably 7 my parents bought me a pellet gun. My dad would take me dove hunting and while he walked the fields I sat under a tree and shot cans, wild melons, and giant ants. It was a blast at that age. They also both took me deer hunting, and even though I was too young to shoot, I for some reason enjoyed sitting in the blind all day silently and watching the wildlife.

At age 10 they bought me an 1100 LT-20, took me skeet shooting one day, then put me in the field. It's been fun ever since.
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