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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  Crimp - What I'm I doing Wrong? (With PIcs)
gjw
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:45 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Sep 2006
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Location: NoDak

Hi all, just wanted to get some thoughts from you all here. I recently got some nice excellent condition 16ga Federal hulls (Thanks Ron!!!!) and I loaded some up today.

Here's what happened, some crimps were perfect, others were less so, and a couple were bad! I did adjust the cam and the crimp starter. Got some excellent crimps, left the adjustments alone, but then a few loads later crappy ones, followed but some good ones.

So....just the hulls or I'm I doing something wrong?

New to reloading so your thoughts are appreciated!

Thanks again!

Best!

Greg


Last edited by gjw on Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ron Overberg
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:48 am  Reply with quote
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I use a posness warren press so I only have hear say on the problem. The length of the hulls in all types seam to vary. So I have read. The other statement was there is a difference between Estate hulls and the Federal branded hull thickness. On another board there was a discussion on the case mouths being skrived (sp) I have loaded most hulls with 1 1/8 oz. with no problems but then again I am using a different press.
Best,
Ron
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spr310
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:52 am  Reply with quote
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gjw wrote:
Hi all, just wanted to get some thoughts from you all here. I recently got some nice excellent condition 16ga Federal hulls (Thanks Ron!!!!) and I loaded some up today.

Here's what happened, some crimps were perfect, others were less so, and a couple were bad! I did adjust the cam and the crimp starter. Got some excellent crimps, left the adjustments alone, but then a few loads later crappy ones, followed but some good ones.

So....just the hulls or I'm I doing something wrong?

New to reloading so your thoughts are appreciated!

Thanks again!



Best!

Greg


What load? Pictures would help. A better description would also help.
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skeettx
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:24 am  Reply with quote
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Is your crimp starter metal or plastic?
Are you using a 6 or 8 point crimp starter?
Are the hulls 6 point or 8 point crimps?
Are the hulls all the same?
Thanks
Mike

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gjw
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:44 pm  Reply with quote



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Hi all, here's the load:

2 3/4" 1oz payload, 18.3 grs of PB, SG16 Wad

Starter is plastic

6 point crimp

Hulls are 6 point

Hull all the same

Will get some pics later.

Thanks so much!

Greg
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brdhunter
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:56 pm  Reply with quote
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Are you making sure your crimp starter is aligned with the old crease in the hull? I have had bad crimps due to poor alignment.

Here is another probem for you all to solve. I have some shells collapse at the brass on the final crimpt stage on my MEC600. Will load 40-50 shells & then have the collapse. I thouhgt the adjusment on the cam had moved but it still measures the same & I have put lock tight on it. After the collapse I can load 40 or so before I have the same problem. Using Estate hulls

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skeettx
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:14 pm  Reply with quote
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Back up the crimp started one turn
Mike


Fun reading

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/bpi/articleindex/articles/mecadjust/mecadj.htm

http://www.mecreloaders.com/documents/ownermanuals/600JrMark5.pdf

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gjw
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:56 pm  Reply with quote



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Hi all, well as requested here are some pics of the crimps:

The Good:



The Bad:



The Ugly:



I would say that 90% of the crimps are good, just those few that are throwing me. As I said, I'd adjust the loader and get great crimps then I'd get a clinker, then get more good crimps.

Just trying to figure this out.

Any help would be great!

Thanks again!

Greg
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putz463
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:00 am  Reply with quote
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my 2 cents; i dont see much bad about the "bad" ones. the ugly ones seem to all have a torn fold; are the hulls that are ugly's starting the process with a continuous un-ripped hull mouth? i know when I'm roll crimping if the hull mouth is torn they end up kinda like your ugly ones. and when i used to fold crimp alot of 20ga if the mouth was torn they would end up like that. Not sure its a length thing, its been my experience with fired factory hulls that Feds are very consistent in length and depth.

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gjw
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:19 am  Reply with quote



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Thanks putz, the hulls are in excellent condition and I didn't see any tears or damage. For me a mystery.

Thanks again!

Greg
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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:36 am  Reply with quote
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The whole issue starts with the crimp starter, for some reason the crimp starter is missing the original folds. This happens with the Zytel crimp starters at times.

I would not make any adjustments to the machine. I would check to be sure that the crimp starter, whether metal or Zytel is rotating freely.

On my Sizemasters, I have marked a line on the outside of the Zytel crimp starter that lines up with the crimp folds on the hull. That makes the problem you are having, go away 100% of the time.

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gjw
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:02 am  Reply with quote



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Thanks Mark, great suggestion!!! So...........where do you line up the folds?

Thanks!

Greg
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byrdog
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:31 am  Reply with quote
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The crimp starter is not indexing and it is tearing some of the creases in the old crimps. those mec zytel dies leave much to be desired in my opinion. You can buy a brass starter from Balistic Products that will fit the Mec loaders . It is a little pricy but they do a nice job. Ponsness Warren steel starters are often on E-bay and can be adapted but thats a pain for most folks. also Mec used to make their starters of folded brass that sat in a housing that mounts on the frame in a 1/4-20 threaded hole that now holds an adapter that you snap the plastic one on to. Look around, E-bay, gun shows, shops, etc.I would bet that, If you cant find a 16ga a 12ga starter of that type would work better than the plastic one

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spr310
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:09 pm  Reply with quote
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What Mark says. If your starter does not rotate a hair as you start the precrimp it is hanging up on the hull.
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gjw
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:05 pm  Reply with quote



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OK, as it stands, the crimp strater is turning free, can spin it if you want. So...should it be solid or be able to turn it?

Thanks!
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