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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:36 pm  Reply with quote
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16GG said: "At some point the rest of the folks reading this will have to make up their own minds about what is 'real' and what is wishful thinking."

Based on the early poll results, 22 to 3, the members of the 16g Society appear to have made up their minds that they 'really' have no interest in registered trap. I believe this reflects the attitude of the 'more-than-average-committed-shooter/bird hunter' also. I suspect the numbers for registered skeet and sporting (as opposed to 'recreational') would be similar.
Another good poll might be 'Is part of why you shoot a 16 on the trap and skeet fields to show up and p*** off the regulars?' Laughing

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:03 pm  Reply with quote
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I wish I could be so certain about a conclusion drawn from the answers we often get aboard this sometimes crazy little ship of ours. True enough, registered trap is not for everyone, just like a 16 ( oh such blasphamy !!! Laughing ) is not for everyone or every shotgun need. However, across the much wider spectrum of the shooting public, that is a significant percentage.

Trap shooting is the most popular shotgun game in America based on numbers of targets thrown and dollars spent. It is bigger than all other shotgun games combined, including skeet. Perhaps less than 10% of those trap shooting folks shoot registered ATA trap, even occasionally. But that is still a bunch. Those that do use a 12. Laughing

PS: PLUUUURRRRBBBB!!!!
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revdocdrew
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:18 pm  Reply with quote
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16GG wrote: "PS: PLUUUURRRRBBBB!!!!"

WHO CAN ARGUE WITH THAT LOGIC? Laughing

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MGF
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:23 am  Reply with quote
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Probably a mass and meaningless generalization, but I've met quite a few, and quite a few very good, trap shooters who hunt not at all. Based on nothing more than conversations, I kind of agree with the revdoc's statements about dedicated hunters. For me, anyway, trap is fun and even relaxing, and the occasional round probably adds a little bit to the upland skills. But I find the gun swinging involved in skeet helps my upland shooting more. That's probably why I shoot about 4 rounds of skeet to every one round of trap. And I shoot all my skeet from the low gun position.

For me, skeet, trap and the occasional round of clays are just fun hunting practice with a social aspect as a bonus. For me, the games arean't ends to themselves.

If I had more time, I might shoot more sporting clays. I think it's fun and a good test of some skills, but I it's become a seriously evolved game itself. Some of those presentations make me laugh when I think about their relationship to upland hunting hunting, especially pheasant hunting. Some of those targets are so long, I'd never take a poke at a pheasant at comparable field distances. It's a whole bunch easier to break a little clay disc than it is to kill a 2-pound bird.

It is kind of fascinating, to me anyway, how the way shotgun games evolve. And while I've got nothing against the hardcore competitors in any of the big 3 games (trap, skeet, clays) -- and some of their adherents are hellacious shotgunners -- I don't think registered shooting in them will ever be my bag. For me, there's too just much focus on things that don't translate much to the field.

And I have to admit I chuckle on the inside when I see guys wheeling a cart, two guns, 8 or 10 chokes, a couple pair of glasses, etc., to shoot a 50-bird clays game. I know to a guy like that, the activity is more like golf than hunting, and I don't begrudge him his fun, but my attitude is more like: "Gun? shells? Ears & eyes? Let's go."
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87016ga
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:39 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Jun 2006
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here,here, mfg........well said Cool
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Foursquare
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:31 am  Reply with quote
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MFG,
Mega dittoes!!!
I have a hard time not errupting in laughter when I see a guy changing chokes on a clays course. To each his own.
Personally, I find trap only a slightly less constipated pursuit than chasing a little ball across a park.

Pete

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TJC
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:44 pm  Reply with quote
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I agree for the most part with mfg and 4sq, but I gotta tell ya, some clays courses have presentations that you just need to change a choke for. I just got back from Fla and shot a round of clays with 3 other guys. About 95% of the course was shot with Skt1 and Skt2 with no problem. But there were a couple of stations that had shots that just were not going to get done with those chokes. I changed to much tighter chokes for those and got the shots done.
I don't change every station or even 3X on a course of 100 birds. But there are times where a bit more choke will help ya.

I do clays and trap for the fun of it and the BS sessions with the other people. That's why I have not purchased a dedicated clays gun as of yet. When it stops being fun, I stop shooting it.

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pezman1963
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:47 pm  Reply with quote
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I shoot the 16 for Trap.
I used to shoot a 12 gauge. My back was bothering me so I switched.
I use either 1oz 1200 fps or 1 1/8 oz 1190 fps or 1275 fps depending on my mood. My scores are the same as when I shot 12 gauge.
The 16 seems to pattern better as more birds are turned to dust when hit.
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MGF
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:24 am  Reply with quote
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Hey, I'm not saying those guys aren't good shooters or can't give me a beat-down on a clays course. And if I were trying to add birds to my average, I'd probably change a tube every now and then, too.

But I shoot clays kind of like I hunt -- generally IC in the bottom, M in the top and let's see what happens.

My average work week is about 55 hours. So on my once-a-week trips to the club, I don't like to over-analyze or stress out about my shooting. It's a simple recipe that usually yields the best part of my week: See the guys, have a little coffee, shoot some birds.

I often fish the same way. An ultralight spinning rod, a tackle box you can carry in a pocket (mainly with some small jigs and a Beetlespin and a Mepps or two), some wax worms in a Skoal can. Usually it's just bluegill and crappie, but every once in while I tie into a largemouth, smallmouth or sometimes a sheephead or catfish, and that can get pretty interesting on ultralight tackle. I don't worry too much about the catch ... it's just being there and relaxing that does it for me.

I hunt pheasant a little more seriously, but I try to remember to laugh at myself when the occasional flush catches me daydreaming and an otherwise easily makable shot goes by the boards. You hunt enough, it's going to happen every now and then. I try to remember I'm a weekend pheasant hunter, not Michael Jordan trying to lock in another championship. (But, oh my, I did enjoy those six beautiful years!)
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Wolfchief
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:04 am  Reply with quote



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MGF, sounds like you are a man after my own heart. I like to flyfish, but if I put the stress into it like those guys in "Fly Fisherman " magazine and the like, I'd go crazy. I'd characterize myself as a "social" trap shot and fly fisherman, a "serious" skeet shot, and a "driven" bird hunter. Life is short, and I've spoiled too many days afield already by not seeing the prairie flowers for the CRP.....

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b.randzin
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:32 pm  Reply with quote
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I guess i am the informal type as i have such great memories of getting together with the guys, friends and family, and going on hunting, fishing, outdoor trips and just enjoyed being out together. Occasionally, after stopping at various watering holes along the way, we actually got to where we were going and had more fun.

Bruce
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old16
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:29 pm  Reply with quote
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16gg
I'm sure you are a very fine trap shooter. I can tell by the way you express youself you a very learned person. So excuse me if I don't use shinney words durring this session. I also am not to good on the computer either so bare with me.

I have shot registered ATA trap for several yrs. in the 90's. Shot many regionals from Michigan,Indian, Ohio,Maryland, Deleware. Shot in the Grand American 3 yrs in a row. I never shot 16 yrd singles. Gee I could sit there all day busten them things and get so bored, 16 yrd isn't much of a challange once you get the hand of it. I did not get into doubles much because durring those times I had to watch my money. I shot mainly Handicap. I was no great shooter but I managed to break about even for the year and was glad because if I didn't I probably wouldn't have shot as much. After the grand in August of 96 I came home and put my gun up and didn't pull a till 2005. I could afford all the gadgets and dohickies but couldn't see much use for them.
I could see a fit for a stock but not what the hell they want for price. Gee the color or figure of the grain does not make it shoot any better.

What I'm getting at is we americans make everything to machanical to ease our ability all for the sake of winning. Special glasses for different lighting, different colored beads, High ribs, Higher ribs, special triggers, special pretty gloves, release triggers, (which should be outlawed). If their were such a thing as something to release the trigger automatically when the target was at the perfect spot the first shooters to have them on your block would be winners for a little while till everyone got one then the manufacture would be the biggest winner.

I like to watch a lot of skeet shooters when they shoot. They are so mechanical. Gun up positioned in the spot where they want the bird to be and it should break. I do not walk around in the fields all day with my gun up a ready for the right bird to fly in front of my barrel expecting to blast them.

We need to improve on our ability to sharpen our skill and not expect gadgets and dohickies to do it for us.

Sporting clay is almost the same way. Call for bird, slam gun to shoulder and wait for the bird to come by. I always thought rules were to call for bird gun below shoulder and wait till target in sight.

These are just my opinions and not ment to offend anyone. I like all shooters and all games it just some of the stuff that is on the market is just plain gimmics and junk and it makes shooting more expensive and one of these days we will shoot our way right out of the sport.

Enough, I'll get back to my Ice cold millers and my Double Gun Journal and maybe some day we will be able to shoot with each other.

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87016ga
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:46 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Jun 2006
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hi old16:
i'm with you 100% (except the part about getting together to shoot with 16gg Laughing )
i wanted to point out that about 5yrs ago or so the NSCA changed the rules to allow shooters to call for the bird with the gun mounted in 5-stand.
sort of defeats the purpose if you ask me, i still do shoot gun down and clay visible......great way to sharpen the field shooting skills.
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old16
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:43 pm  Reply with quote
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870
Thats what it is all about. Usuing you own skills and ability. I shot some trap today. The last shoot I was in was a 25 1/2yard. I decided to use my 16. Several guys sighed up when they seen I was going to use it. Well I had to shoot off for First. I was the second shooter so the first shooter go to pick the spot. He said let get this over with fast lets shoot from the forty yrd. I said ok. He shot with his 1400ft pre sec. and missed. I shot with my 20gr. of 800x reload 1oz and the rest is history. Oh by the way I said he was right this wouldn't last long. You should have seen the chuckles from the rest of the guys and also the guy I beat. He is a good humored fellow.
Like I said 1oz is 1oz whether is come from a 12 or 16. 100ft. pre Sec. is 1200ft. per. Sec.
Before I went out on the line I had old sweetie outside in the gun rack with the rest of the guns and the guys were sure looking it over and ribbing me about fare chance. I told them I know they didn't have a chance but I needed the money for a new set of store bought choppers.

Shoot straight

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:34 am  Reply with quote
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As I think I said, each to his own. I started shotgunning originally for hunting only. Early on, that was not even wingshooting. I learned to pot squirrels from trees, rabbits from thickets, and even the occasional grouse from either. It wasn't sporting, because it wasn't for sport. It was mostly for meat, and the satisfaction of bagging my own dinner like my forefathers. It helped me realize I could measure up to my heritage. I was truely my Grandfather's grandson.

I began to learn wingshooting from a local friend in Virginia, but time, money, and facilities were limited so my skill was too.

Later, When I moved to Florida and was exposed to both quail and dove shooting, I decided to learn to master this aspect of shotgunning in order to become a better game bird shot. I joined the Orange County Trap and Skeet Club in Buena Vista just North of Disney World. There, I learned the fundamentals of wingshooting through trap and skeet.

I was not a competative shooter. I felt the same as many of the folks on this site. It made little sense to me to spend what limited funds I had on fancy guns, ammo, and the constant target fees needed to master the game enough to compete. I had a long bird hunting season to enjoy and lots of opportunity to hunt to my heart's content. Dove hunting tought me more about wingshooting than either game or so it seemed. So I shot trap and skeet for fun and practice in the hot summer monthes under the lights in the cooler evenings and hunted birds from October until March. I also tended to laugh at the serious trap and skeet shooters. What they were doing made little sense to me. I saw much cost and little benifit.

When I moved back to Massachusetts, things changed again. Bird seasons are more limited, but there were more local clubs with trap, skeet, 5 stand, and sporting clays. Target fees were even lower, and there was more comraderie. However, these Northern guys were much more competative, and more vocal about each other's abilities with a shotgun. Social pressure alone steared me towards mastering the games I was playing.

Trap is the the most popular as well as offering the most prize money. If I was going to compete, I'd need both the incentive and the winnings to keep going. I'm not a rich man, nor even near do well. I also realized a game gun would not do it for me, so I sold off much of my older gun collection to get a decent trap gun that would let me shoot both single and double targets. I joined the ATA and went at it.

Then a funny thing happened to me over time. I came to realize that competative trap is not a game but a discipline, something I'd not ever attempted to really learn in my life before--at least not consiously. Since then, the time, effort, and money I've put into the endeavor have been outweighed by the benifits. I began to realize just how much better focused and observant I have become in nearly all the things I do. I've learned much more patience and self control under duress or pressure. My attention to detail has improved. I've also learned a thing or two about commitment too, as well as being gracious when things go wrong or seem unfair.

Registered trap shooting is not for everyone. Probably less than 1 in 10 people who shoot trap for fun actually shoot registered targets. Most of the shotgunners at the club I belong shoot trap but not registered trap But They know me, and know well the time and effort I've dedicated to learning and mastering the game. They hold me in some esteem for doing so. I appreciate it, and have learned not to let it go to my head and out my mouth. That is also a big lesson in life.

Yesterday, I went to another local club where I have more friends. There, we shot some 5 stand. I brought out my old sporting clays gun which has sat pretty much unused for nearly a decade now. My first round was a bit rough. However, the skills of observance, and problem solving I've learned from registered trap shooting kicked in, and by the third round, I was shooting on par with the best guys there. When it was time to go, every one of those folks shook my hand, and made a point of asking me back. They all said please come back soon, and often. That was a big reward too. Acceptance. So it seems registered trap shooting has also tought me something about social grace and comraderie.

Like I said, Registered trap shooting is not for everyone. However, its been very good for me.
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