16ga.com Forum Index
Author Message
<  16ga. Guns  ~  Just bought 16 ga Parker Trojan - questions
czech
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:56 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 11

Hello

I'm new to this board, and completely new to Parker shotguns, but I was fortunate enough to pick up a 1913 16 ga Parker Trojan (double triggers, 28" barrels, #1 frame) the other day from a private seller, and I was hoping someone here could answer some questions for me.

It has 20-30% case colors, 70-80% blue on the barrels and 90%+ finish on the stock with a small chip in the forearm where it thins out at the front. It locks up tight and the lever is still just to the right of vertical. Bores cleaned up to mirror-bright.

The bad parts: there are a few spots where pitting is evident, and there is a crack in the buttstock coming forward from the pad for about 3". And the pad is an ugly white line ventilated thing. I don't think the stock was cut to install the pad, though, because it has about 14" LOP and there is a small curve to the butt near the toe that I don't think would be there if someone cut it.

I thought I'd order a replacement buttplate and add a slip-on leather pad, but the buttplates I've seen say something like "with toe" or "without toe". Anyone know what this means?

Second, how do I tell what the choke is in each barrel? If they are full choke, what should I have them opened up to for use on grouse, pheasant and quail?

Finally, how do I repair the stock...or do I just take it to a gunsmith and let him take over? I don't want to sink a lot into this gun (I only paid $300 for it).

Really finally, as a grouse and quail gun, should I keep this and use it (I'm not interested in owning a wallhanger), or sell it and look for a more modern SXS?

Lots of questions, I'm afraid, but this seems to be a friendly bunch and I'm hoping to get this all figured out so I can enjoy shooting a lovely SXS 16 ga in an upcoming grouse hunt.

Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
revdocdrew
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:12 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 1939
Location: Glendale, AZ

WOW Exclamation $300 for a #1 frame 16g Trojan. Friend-you made yourself one unbelievable deal. Any 90 yr old gun, however, deserves a good check and clean by an experienced doublegun smith. It's very likely to have short chambers, 2 and 9/16", and, even if you're going to make this your designated pheasant gun, likely needs the chokes opened a bit (see these threads) http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1429
http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1503
http://bbs.shootingsportsman.com/viewtopic.php?t=28793
Lots of good stock repair specialists out there that can do wonders with cracks-what part of the US is your home?


Last edited by revdocdrew on Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
Drew Hause
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
czech
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:19 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 11

Thanks for the reply. I suspected the shotgun was something special when I saw the "Parker Brothers" on the side of the frame, but I didn't know until I got it home and looked it up.

2 3/4" 16 ga shells drop right in. Is that a good enough check for chamber length?

I live in Reno, Nevada.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fin2feather
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:05 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 2083
Location: Kansas High Plains

Even if it is 2-9/16 I think you can shoot 2-3/4 shells in it with no problem. Nice find!! And in answer to your "really" question: it will be a great gun for the kinds of shooting you want to do. Keep it, shoot it, love it. Welcome to the board!

Fin

_________________
I feel a warm spot in my heart when I meet a man whiling away an afternoon...and stopping to chat with him, hear the sleek lines of his double gun whisper "Sixteen." - Gene Hill, Shotgunner's Notebook
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Foursquare
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:16 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 398
Location: S Fl

czech wrote:
2 3/4" 16 ga shells drop right in. Is that a good enough check for chamber length?


God, No!! The 2 3/4" is the length after the shell is fired. Most 2 3/4 shells will drop right in to a 2 1/2" chamber. That being said, it may not matter, as others have mentioned, alot of people shoot 2 3/4 shells in short chamber guns without ill effect.
The only way to accurately check choke is with a bore gauge. Take a reading about 12-15" from muzzle, another at muzzle, the difference is the choke. You can get a gauge from Brownells that will cover 12-28 ga for about $150.
Or, as Drew said, take it to a smith that specializes in doubles. Have him give it the once over, including choke measurement. If they're too tight (very likely) he can open them up for you.
You may double what you have in the gun, but IMHO it's money well spent.

Pete

_________________
" .......you have learned patience and stubbornness and concentration on what you really want at the expense of what is there to shoot. You have learned that man can as easily be debased as ennobled by a sport....."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
revdocdrew
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:20 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 1939
Location: Glendale, AZ

Several issues and you'll get lots of opinions about the need (and safety) of lengthening the short chambers and here's a thread in that regard:
http://bbs.shootingsportsman.com/viewtopic.php?t=29070

You can make your own limited use chamber length gauge. Find a piece of thin but stiff cardboard or thin plastic. Cut it straight JUST LESS than 3/4" in width. Insert carefully into the chamber until you JUST start to feel resistance and measure the distance. Galazan sells handy brass gauges for $40.
So what if you have short chambers? With a #1 frame 16, you should have plenty of metal to lengthen the chambers. #0 frames not so sure. It is true that as the modern thin plastic case extends into the forcing cone with firing the shell, pressure MAY not increase much esp. compared to the older waxed paper case (and maybe even not much with them) BUT, you still have a 90 year old piece of wood and ANY increase in pressure or recoil (which can be two different things) is probably not a good thing. I KNOW (rather than just believe) that the recoil from a 2 3/4" 7/8 oz AA target load in my 2 1/2" chamber 20g. 1922 Trojan is WICKED.
A couple of smiths you should consider are Dan Lammers here in Phoenix, 602-298-4635 or Keith Kearcher http://members.toast.net/keithkearcher
David Yale does excellent stock repair 970-562-4225 as does Dennis Smith www.thestockdr.com 541-483-2182.
You have a wonderful old gun and you should make it right for you and your needs. Opening the chokes will be $40-50 per brl (and you might just open the R to IC from Mod and leave the L full) Lengthening the chambers is about the same $. Check and clean will be about $75 and well worth it. Wood repair may not amount to much and the smith can fit the curved buttplate. Even if you do put $300 into the gun-you will have an about $1000 classic American SxS that your grandchildren will be shooting someday! Let us know how it all works out.

_________________
Drew Hause
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
czech
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:11 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 11

Hey...thanks, guys for all the information.

I'm still a little confused, though, about the "with toe" and "without toe" I see advertized for replacement buttplates. Anyone got an answer for this?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
revdocdrew
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:57 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 1939
Location: Glendale, AZ

See p. 46-47 of the Galazan catalog #9 or www.connecticutshotgun.com for pics. Some butt plates have a 'spur' on the HEEL. The Trojan buttplate does not have this spur.

_________________
Drew Hause
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Parker Trojan
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:01 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 225
Location: San Rafael, CA

Holy Crap!!!! $300 for a 16ga Trojan on a #1 frame ,you must live right,brother. With that small an initial cost,you have lots of room to give that gun professional care and no "Shade-tree" gunsmith,please.I shoot mine for upland game and like Kent Gamebore 2 1/2" #7 shot for a factory load or you can get into reloading ,if you have the spare time.Any time you get tired of it,you'll have a lot of buyers from this site. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Birdawg
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:40 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 87
Location: Idaho/ New Mexico

Sounds like a bunch of trouble and it is too close to bird season to get all that work done. Your best bet is to make a quick 30% and send me a PM.
Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes .

Seriously don't mess with it before you have a good gunsmith check it out. Only then will you know what you have.

_________________
BD
This mail is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and
grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are
to be considered flaws or defects.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
czech
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:02 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 11

Maybe something I did in a past life, I don't know, but these kind of things just seem to happen to me.

I did a guy a favor once and he just up and gave me his Trapdoor Springfield Cadet Model 45-70.

Walked into a pawnshop I'd never been to before because I had a feeling I'd find something nice and walked out with a Sako lightweight deluxe in 99% condition for $300, including a Weaver 6x scope and a custom embossed leather sling. The pawnshop owner said, "It says Forester or something on the side. I think it's one of those English guns like a Whitworth."

Went to a garage sale and found a pair of Zeiss Classic 10x40's for $50 ($800 binoculars).

Was late for a garage sale that advertised "reloading supplies". The seller said everything was gone, except an old junk single stage reloading press I could have for $25. It turned out to be an RCBS A2 press, one of the very early models that are now selling for $200.

Of course I've done some really dumb things, too, like the time a fella offered me a minty Winchester Model 64 for $250. I turned it down because I was looking for a 30-30.

Anyway, I have some more questions: apparently I don't have to have the chambers lengthened if I use 2 1/2" shells, and I don't have to have the chokes opened up if I use spreader wads. It's almost made me want to take up reloading!

But where do I find a reloader with dies made for 2 1/2" shells? Where do I find 2 1/2" empty shells (paper, I presume)? How much will my cost per box be if I reload, and how does that compare to buying the 2 1/2" shells straight from the store (since I'll likely only be shooting a half-dozen or so boxes a year running after quail and grouse anyway)?

Wow...it seems all I have is questions for you guys. But I have to say, you're a good bunch, and I'm looking forward to actually shooting that Parker and becoming one of the 16 ga brotherhood.

Thanks for all the answers!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dave Miles
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:14 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 1539
Location: Michigan

Even if you are shooting a case or two a year. I would buy them. I wouldn't get into reloading unless your shooting over one hundred shells a week. Just not worth it. You can buy all the loads and shot sizes you need in 2-1/2" or 2-9/16" shells. I wouldn't be affraid to shoot an occasional 2-3/4" load either.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
revdocdrew
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:20 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 1939
Location: Glendale, AZ

FWIW: Scheels in Iowa City has a 16ga Trojan, 28", M/F, with 30% colors for $2,400 Shocked
Bro czech-maybe it's time to start doing something good with the REST of your life Rolling Eyes

_________________
Drew Hause
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
hunshatt
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:32 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 740
Location: New England, home of fat teddy k.

I think you should dump the pig iron. It rates even less than a worlingworth.
I'd even be willing to give you $350 for it, just so you don't feel bad about buying it in the first place.


.


If you decide you want 2 1/2s, let us know. Tjc and I are buying a number of flats from Rst. Of course we're haveing them made with special lettering on the side
"only for use in lazer guided pheasent killin machines"

Thuddddddd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
revdocdrew
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:26 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 1939
Location: Glendale, AZ

And another at Cabela's for $2300
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/inventory/lehi/american_sg/222320_pt16_leh.jsp

_________________
Drew Hause
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
All times are GMT - 7 Hours

View next topic
View previous topic
Page 1 of 2
Goto page 1, 2  Next
16ga.com Forum Index  ~  16ga. Guns

Post new topic   Reply to topic


 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB and NoseBleed v1.09