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Joined: 23 Jul 2013 Posts: 13 Location: Newfoundland

It's not really critical with cartridge reloading ...but whats the consensus with shot shells ?,are there brands that can be substituted safely like the cci 209,win209 ,or federal 209?

Thanks !

It REALLY does matter in terms of pressure and acceptable levels of
performance.

See here

http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

The only exception I use is the W209 and Cheddite's interchangebly.

Guest

It's never a great idea. Sure, you can pull it off sometimes, but sticking to tested recipes from reputable sources is a good standard to adopt.

Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 380 Location: Northeast Ohio

I've seen that article by Armbruster before. However it never hurts to re-read it. A real eye opener. Ought to be a sticky.

The patterning section is very interesting. Once one finds a load that patterns significantly better than others in a particular barrel, it would be wise to stick with it.

Joined: 23 Jul 2013 Posts: 13 Location: Newfoundland

Thanks Guys ,I'm new to shotshell reloading ,and you don't know if you don't ask..the Armbrust article is great ,1`it should be made a "sticky"

Primers can vary significantly in power and in duration of burn, so swapping them out might significantly change the average peak pressure, average velocity, and ballistic consistancy of a given load. It can be done if the two primers are closely similar in performance characteristics. Carefully testing the modified load for performance is required. Resulting loads with significantly lower average pressures (bloopers) can be as problematic as those with significantly higher average pressures (very hot loads).

HOWEVER, SWAPPING PRIMERS SHOULD ONLY BE DONE IF THE AVERAGE PUBLISHED PEAK LOAD PRESSURES ARE MID-RANGE (about 9 -9.5K PSI)TO BEGIN WITH. AVOID CHANGING ANYTHING IF THE AVERAGE PEAK LOAD PRESSURES ARE ALREADY LOW OR ANYWHERE NEAR MAXIMUM.

So in your case as a newbie, you should stick to the published data and avoid swapping out componants until you have gained enough experience to understand what you may be doing. Read a lot, pay attention to what you are doing, and have patience until you know what you are doing. Good luck.

Joined: 23 Jul 2013 Posts: 13 Location: Newfoundland

No worries on that ,although I'm a newbie I don't substitute any components ,I follow the published recipes...hell,I even weigh every powder charge on a scale ...that way I know exactly whats going in there.

it was a thinking out loud kind of question Wink

Joined: 12 Sep 2010 Posts: 1973 Location: Maine

We've been through this time and again.

You are not "substituting components", be they primers, wads, or whatever.

When you take a published (or tested) load and then put a different component in the place of those in the load, you are creating a new load. Maybe it's tested, in which case you can know what it is supposed to do. If it hasn't been tested and the results published, then you're taking the risk of the load doing bad things. You can either get it tested and find out, or roll the dice.

It sounds like semantics and it is, but this is where semantics leaves the clouds and becomes the place where the rubber meets the road.

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

+1. High powered rifle and handgun loads can be less forgiving, not more. The difference is that sometimes, a metallic load will give warning signs of excessive pressure--but not always. Shot shells never do.

Joined: 12 Sep 2010 Posts: 1973 Location: Maine

In my experience, it is way too late when a shot shell shows any signs of excessively high pressures. By then, average peak pressures have probably already climbed past 20K PSI. Individual load pressures may have already reached over 25K PSI. Extruded primers, stretched plastic hull walls, and bulged heads are showing signs of pressures well above this point.

Why even go there. Inadvertently, I have. I don't recommend it. 'Twas long ago with a 28 ga load I cobbled together using some questionable data for a powder I was not very experienced with. Luckily, my gun was a stout one. Thankfully I've never gone there again. Once is scary enough. My guns and my fingers are still intact. Lesson learned.

Too late is too late. The boat has sailed. Best check the gun for damage, and count your lucky stars if none is found. Then never do it again. Stay safe.

Proof loads do not show signs of pressure, it takes a heck of a shotshell load to see signs of pressure. It is NOT easy to produce a proof load, let alone a load over 20,000 PSI.

You cannot get to proof pressure merely by swapping primers.

It takes a lot of shot and a lot of powder to get to 20,000 PSI.

Joined: 10 Feb 2011 Posts: 217 Location: Pacific Northwest

I have just a little point of curiosity. For all the folks that advocate never switching shotshell primers without getting the new load pressure tested; when you guys switch brands of tires on your car, do you turn it over for to a professional driver and test track for a safety evaluation before you drive it home? Wink