16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 08 Oct 2012 Posts: 72 Location: Hilton Head SC

I was shooting a variety of loads at the local sporting clays course today (all tested loads from the spreadsheets or Lymans) and noticed quite a few of them left a lot of unburned powder in the barrels. They all shot well but I was a little surprised by the leftover powder. I hand weighed each of the loads so I know they were exactly as the recipe called for. The loads were Green Dot, Blue Dot, and Unique loads.
I can put up the exact loads if needed but I was wondering if there was any obvious reasons for this? Im wondering if this is loading error, condition error, something to be concerned about, or just a bad characteristic of certain non-optimal loads? Thanks everyone

*Last edited by skeettx on Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total*

This is normal and of no concern if you clean your guns when they
quit working
Mike

Member Joined: 02 Sep 2010 Posts: 829 Location: SW Ohio

If you do not have a good crimp, or if the wad hung up a bit on the lip of the shell and is not perfectly even then you do not have enough wad pressure to get a good burn. Wad pressure is formed when you crimp the shell and compress the shot column down in the hull. I have some trouble with the DR16 catching the lip of the hull as they insert and they are not perfectly flat against the powder. If significant enough it will be a blooper load, then there is a ton of powder in the barrel.
Never have that problem in my 12 ga reloads only 16, I think it is because the hulls is not as good quality.

If the wads are catching on the hull, the cause is your wad guide, regardless of how good the guide might look.

Cheddite, Winchester, Federal, Fiocchi and even Remington hulls are not the reason for your problems.

The DR16 is an excellent wad and is not the issue either. I reload a fair number of DR16's and I haven't had a single problem seating them flat on the powder or shooting them ever since they were introduced.

Joined: 26 Apr 2010 Posts: 3177 Location: NCWa

I use Green Dot and DR16s as the main powder/wad for light 16 ga loads (3/4-1 oz) and I haven't noticed a "unburnt" powder grains. When I use Blue Dot it's with heavier loads that run higher pressures, which promotes cleaner burning. I have noticed that when I've loaded some lighter loads with the Blue dot that it doesn't burn as cleanly, but then that's why I use Green Dot for the lighter loads.

Colsen1

If you could post the loads it might help.

Blue Dot can leave a lot of stuff in the barrel but not unburned flakes.

Member Joined: 02 Sep 2010 Posts: 829 Location: SW Ohio

I know it is not the wad causing the hangup. Just cannot seem to get the wad guide to work well with hulls that have a mis- shaped mouth. Reconditioning the mouth helps, but is time consuming so I do not reuse hulls with rally bad mouths.
It's definitely my technique causing the bloopers and I did not mean to imply the wad was the issue.

see Mike Campbells posting on his cocked wad problem in prev posts

Colsen1 says "They all shot well "

No issue there, just unburned powder and that is normal with
slower burning powder

Just clean the gun as needed

Mike

A few weeks back, I posted this reply to a related question. The info here might help you understand why some loads leave unburnt powder powder in the receiver and barrel:

The July, 2014 edition of Shotgun Sports has a good article on slow burning shotgun powders. Longshot is specifically covered.

According to the article, all slow burning shotgun powders have three requirements. One is a firm crimp. The second is load data calling for heavier shot loads and higher average pressures near the top of the acceptable range. For the 16 ga., that would be about 11K PSI or a bit more. The third is a magnum strength primer like a CCI 209M or a Federal 209A.

My experience w/ Blue Dot and WW 571 bear this out. Only those loads which meet all three requirements perform consistently well, especially in cold weather. I have successfully used WW 571 in heavy 7/8 ounce, 28 gauge hunting loads set up for #7 magnum pigeon shot. I was using a CCI 209M primer and a stiff charge of powder to get velocities over 1275 FPS. However, I could not get good performance until I adjusted the crimp starter and crimp die to set a fairly deep, firm crimp. That did the trick. These loads were excellent on late season grouse well into January. I also used them for late season pheasant at short range when the opportunity presented itself. However, less than very firm, perfect crimps produced less than acceptable powder burning.

Unique is a very good powder for one ounce 16 ga loads. It does not require pressures to be near the top of the range nor a magnum primer to produce clean burning, consistently performing loads. However, it does require good firm crimps.

As a matter of fact, all good hunting loads require good firm crimps, and good crimps require once fired hulls in my experience. However, that should not be a big problem when it comes to reloading hunting ammo. The number of hulls most of us actually load per year for hunting ammo is small compared to recreational loads. So use your hulls wisely. Save the best ones for bird hunting loads and then reuse them for less fussy fun loads. Works for me. Hope my input helps.

REPEAT!! Heavier shot loads require slower burning powders to get the desired higher velocities at acceptable average peak pressures. Lighter shot loads have less inertia (resistance) and require faster burning powders which promote cleaner burning loads. Ultra light 16 ga. loads like 3/4 and 7/8 ounce loads have the least resistance of all and require those powders near or at the top of the burning speed range.

Best refer to the relative powder burning speed chart in any recently compiled loading manual to see which powders may best be suitable for your requirements. And again, good crimps are always a good thing. W/o them, clean burning loads are not possible.

I guess the next question should be, is this unburned powder or a dirty burn.

Unburned isn't good, dirty is another deal, but you still need to know what loads these powders were used in to know how to answer the OP's question. None of them burn all that clean under the best conditions.

Joined: 10 Feb 2011 Posts: 217 Location: Pacific Northwest

Joined: 26 Apr 2010 Posts: 3177 Location: NCWa

[quote what possible difference could it make? If a load performs well, don't sweat the nuances.[/quote]

I'd guess that it could make a difference with a gas operated action- having learned that lesson the hard-way with an M16, but since I shoot only recoil operated self loaders, pumps or breaks, if it shoots, it shoots. As long as the gas gun is cleaned after each session, powder residue should be more of a small nuisance than anything else.

Just because it goes bang doesn't mean it is a good load

If you see a lot of unburned flakes of powder, there is a problem.

We should be addressing the OP's question, correct?

Joined: 10 Feb 2011 Posts: 217 Location: Pacific Northwest