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Joined: 15 Aug 2014 Posts: 5 Location: United States

From the brief time I have been here I have noted comments that RIO and Fiocchi hulls may be minutely larger, especially the RIO's. The others seem to be using US sizing. My 16 ga loads seem to be working OK. Now I need to confirm safety on my 28 ga.

Member Joined: 15 Mar 2007 Posts: 601 Location: Virginia

My experience with various 209 primers is that Rio, Fiocchi, and Nobelsport are oversize when compared to American primers. Wolf and Cheddite are the same size as American; or at least they don't stretch the pockets.

Dan

I think it is time for us 16 ga reloading fans to face a certain truth once and for all. Today's 16 ga ammo is manufactured for one time use at the cheapest available cost, and not with reloading in mind. So things like componant uniformity and hull resilience do not much matter to the ammo industry. Low manufacturing costs and economy of scale do. Just how it is.

Most generic commercial grade ammo componants like primers, hulls, wads, etc. used in typical commercial 16 ga ammo are now manufactured under contract in Asia at the cheapest available rates. Specifications like primer cup diameters, brissance, etc change far more often than for commercial reloader grade componants or for componants used in premium grade target ammo (which do not exist in 16 gauge).

The ammo industry adjusts to these changes on an as needed basis. So we 16 ga reloaders must be ready for such changes, or problems like loose fitting or hard seating primers will continue to unexpectedly pop up and cause us headaches.

That is why I have been urging others to mike the spent primers they decap and those they intend to reload with. It is the only way to know what diameter primers will best fit in their latest batch of once fired 16 ga hulls.

Of course, we are free to continue to go by guess and by golly, but a bit of foresight and effort w/ a vernier or micrometer will make things a lot easier and a lot more certain IMO. Just sayin'. Up to you.

Joined: 15 Aug 2014 Posts: 5 Location: United States

I am loading Longshot and SP16 wads and they are finishing the crimp somewhat inverted. This is on a Lee Load all. I weighed the SHOT charge and the 1 1/8 oz bushings were only throwing about 15/16 oz of # 6 shot. I tried weighing the shot charge and actually shooting a 1 1/8 oz weighed load. Crimps still deep but useable. Patterns were off the chart- at 35 yards 18 pellets hit a life sized silhouette of a dove. This would make a turkey load but not for dove. Has anyone experienced light shot charges with the Lee?? The new hulls (Blue Cheddite)are slightly longer than my fired factory hulls after 1 firing are 2.720 long where all other once fired hulls are 2.620. I am supposing this may be responsible for the deep crimp, or that I am compressing the wads too much on loading. Any thoughts??

Everyone experiences light charges
The factory has to assume you will use #9 shot and so it has more lead
and less air space in the volumn of the shot hole.
Nimber 6 will use less lead and more air space in the same shot hole in the bushing.

So act accordingly

Good luck
I use a Cheerio in the wad cup and under the shot

Mike
AKA the Cheerio Kid Shocked

Try using a bulkier powder. Green dot for instance or Unique. Long shot is a Ball powder and is quite dense so it takes up less room per grain than flake powders.

2-s , chedds are probably the roomiest cases . What BD and skeetx said are spot on . I find 20/28 to be dense also . Fios can be funny - i've found both sized primers , but my chedds have always worked in any Fio case . I also found that most of my FITTING problems went away with using shorter cases . Dr's , shorter cases - everything I use (5/8 to 7/ Cool

goes in and works . ( me and Mike would be in line fighting for the cheerios at a sale - mine mostly for small 20 and 28ga loads)... My computer likes to throw those smiley faces in for no reason - wasn't my idea !

OK, to go back a few pages, I have known that RIO primers are oversized compared to US standards, though I could not recall until now where I had seen that. It would then stand to reason that the primer pockets in RIO hulls would be correspondingly oversized to match their own primers.

One place I had seen the RIO primer oversize comment was at Recob's:

" Rio 209 shotshell primer
RELOADING SUPPLIES / PRIMERS / Rio

Item #: 209R

Rio 209 shotshell primers are oversized compared to American standards."

I bought some 15k RIO primers from MIDWAY some time ago for something like $12 / k before anyone had heard of them. My problem is going to be that when I run out, I will have to recondition EVERY hull's primer pocket when I go to use something else, until those hulls are discarded. Either that or just discard 'em all, and start over.

Just buy these and forget the reconditioning Very Happy

See size chart in each of the below listings

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Fiocchi-616-primers-1000_box/productinfo/F616/

or these Shocked

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Cheddite-209-primers-1000_pk/productinfo/CH209/

OR stay with the Rio's

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Rio-209-Shotshell-Primers-1000_box/productinfo/RIO209/

After being frustrated with the lack of available 16 GA ammo and the poor quality hulls, you can do as I did and buy these for your hunting loads. Very Happy