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Member Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Posts: 105 Location: Virginia

New to the forum been reading old post, lot of good information.

Just bought a Parker Trojan 16 that I plan to use for Sporting Clays targets. It’s a 28 inch 1 frame F&M. about 6 lbs 10 oz. It’s not my first target SxS, am shooting a couple of other Parkers 12’s and 20’s, 7/8 or 1 oz loads mostly, 3/4 oz in the light guns. Will probably look for ¾ oz loads for the 16 if they will pattern. 7/8 if need be. My preferred velocity is about 1150 fps.

Seems to me reading past post I ought to order Cheddite Blue Hulls and the DR 16 Wad. Considering light shot charges ought to get some overshot wads in case I have to fill out to get good crimps.

Dilemma is powder. Have a couple of jugs of Red Dot for the 12’s few pounds of International Clays and a unopened 8 lb jug of 20/28 for my 20G. From Pistol loading about a pound of Unique. And a few pounds of Hodgdon Clays. Am on the hunt for some Green Dot however it’s likely I am going to have to load with what I have in the foreseeable future.

What do you guys recommend for powder given the components and shot weights mentioned. And if I can find some fresh powder is Green Dot what I want ? All advice appreciated

Boats

something in the 18gr catagory with 20/28 . Dr , and you can try 3/4 but you may have trouble crimping . Can try 23 grams or 7/8 oz . The 20/28 can go as high as 27grns in a 7/8 load as listed in the Ballistic Prods archive . You should be able to go 15grns or so of Red Dot with either 3/4 or 7/8 . 20/28 is in the Unique catagory - slower burn . Thr RD or IC (green dot catagory) should be the cats meow for what you want . 16ga loads are quite versatile as you will find here - not like 2o yrs ago . I use 13.5 Red Dot , DR and down to 5/8 in RGLS . Even that little load will work my 11-48's

14.5 to 15 grains of Red Dot will work well in an RGL hull for 3/4 ounces of shot in the DR16 wad. I think you can safely up the charge to 16 grains on up to 18 grains if you use the much roomier Cheddite or Fiocchi hulls. You can use the same volumetric charge of Clays for the same componants and shot loads. A volumetric charge of Clays will weigh less than a voilumetric charge of Red Dot, so you should remain on safe ground if you use the same powder bushing for either.

Green Dot and Internatonal Clays have the same volumetric relationship as that of Clays and Red Dot. Volumetric charges of either work for the same componants and shot load weights. I use 16 grains if GD in my 3/4 and 7/8 ounce RGL loads. So at least 18 grains of GD should work well in the Cheddite hulls. Again, the same volumetric charge of International Clays should also work well.

Get some .135" thick, 28 gauge nitro card wads for fillers if you find you need some. One in the bottom of the shot cup ought to do the trick. Good luck.

Joined: 12 Sep 2010 Posts: 1973 Location: Maine

Welcome to the site, Boats. If you've been reading and reading the older posts, you've already figured out this is one of the friendlier places on the internet, especially among shotgun-oriented sites. We're happy to have you.

Good choice on your first 16.

I'll defer to the real experts on good loads, especially for the components you have, but Green Dot seems to be a real favorite. Cheddites are Cheddites, regardless of color. You should also note that the relatively new Herters' shells, sold through Cabela's (their house brand), are loaded in Cheddite hulls in the proper purple color. Likewise, the new factory-loaded Winchesters. And the DR16 was developed by one of the members on this site and handles lighter loads - like 3/4 oz. - really well. The OSC is well-liked among members here, as are Cheerios and pinto beans, when it comes to filling out a roomy hull.

Again, welcome!

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2170 Location: Florida

from the Hodgdon site for Cheddite hulls

Hodgdon Powder Internat'l Primer Ched. 209 Wad DR 16 Maximum Load Grains 15.3 Pressure 5,700 PSI Velocity (ft/s) 1,100 Gauge: 16

Lead Shot 3/4 oz.Manufacturer Hodgdon Powder Internat'l Primer Ched. 209 Wad DR 16 Maximum Load Grains 15.9 Pressure 6,200 PSI Velocity (ft/s) 1,150
Gauge: 16

Lead Shot 3/4 oz.Manufacturer Hodgdon Powder Internat'l Primer Ched. 209 Wad DR 16 Maximum Load Grains 16.6 Pressure 6,700 PSI Velocity (ft/s) 1,200 Gauge: 16

Lead Shot 3/4 oz.Manufacturer Hodgdon Powder Internat'l Primer Nobel 209 Wad DR 16 Maximum Load Grains 15.3 Pressure 5,400 PSI Velocity (ft/s) 1,100
Gauge: 16

Lead Shot 3/4 oz.Manufacturer Hodgdon Powder Internat'l Primer Nobel 209 Wad DR 16 Maximum Load Grains 16.2 Pressure 6,000 PSI Velocity (ft/s) 1,150 Gauge: 16

Lead Shot 3/4 oz.Manufacturer Hodgdon Powder Internat'l Primer Nobel 209 Wad DR 16 Maximum Load Grains 17.0 Pressure 6,500 PSI Velocity (ft/s) 1,200

Lead shot 7/8 oz Powder Internat'l Primer Rem. 209P Wad DR 16 Maximum Load Grains 16.4 Pressure 6,200 PSI Velocity (ft/s) 1,150 Gauge: 16

Lead Shot 7/8 oz.Manufacturer Hodgdon Powder Internat'l Primer Rem. 209P Wad DR 16 Maximum Load Grains 17.4 Pressure 7,200 PSI Velocity (ft/s) 1,200

Lead shot 7/8 oz.Hodgdon Powder Internat'l Primer Win. 209 Wad DR 16 Maximum Load Grains 15.8 Pressure 6,200 PSI Velocity (ft/s) 1,150 Gauge: 16

Lead Shot 7/8 oz.Manufacturer Hodgdon Powder Internat'l Primer Win. 209 Wad DR 16 Maximum Load Grains 16.9 Pressure 7,300 PSI Velocity (ft/s) 1,200

Member Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Posts: 105 Location: Virginia

Good advice and much appreciated, it’s a nice forum here hope I can be of help to you guys sometime.

On the Shot weights. I pick weights according to the gun, recoil and pellets on target. Have 7 lb 1 frame 12 G Parker that puts all the shot it needs on clays with ¾ oz loads. Other side of it old Parker Lifter weighs so much you can load heavy Black Powder charges with little recoil. Even that one 2 ½ D 1 oz is it’s normal load. Lot lighter than it can handle. I am guessing this 16 will be OK with 7/8 but like to try ¾ oz too. Tight chokes make up for shot weight with density.

Thanks for the nitro wad details will add them to my Ballistic Products order. If the Herter’s shells are Cheddites and Blue may order some to shoot while sorting out loads, wanted a 16 for the Southern SxS which is real close. Be better to shoot not experiment until after.

Particularly appreciate the powder advice, will stay after Green Dot, use what I have for now. I did think Unique a bit slow for light shot loading, probably work but not burn completely. Used to use Unique cast bullet rifle loading switched all to 4227 instead because of the better burn with low pressures.

Longer term have to make my mind up shoot 2 ¾ or shorten the shells to 2 ½ inch. No need to but may do it anyhow. Plenty of time over the winter to play with short shell loading.

Boats

Joined: 12 Sep 2010 Posts: 1973 Location: Maine

Right now, one can't do much better on prices for 16ga shells than the Herter's. They're on sale at Cabela's for 57.99 a flat. At current component prices, one can't reload that cheaply. They're loaded with 1 oz in 6 or 8, but if you're going to cut down the hulls, you can load them lighter when reloading.

I buy them, open them, set the shot aside and leave the wad and powder in place, cut the hull down to 2 1/2, then re-load the shot, add an OSC and roll crimp. Works for my short-chambered 16s.

Member Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Posts: 105 Location: Virginia

Thanks

Just ordered a flat, 1 oz but they will do until I get loading

One clarification on the Wads, on Ballistic Products site searching for DR 16 The Gualandi S16 comes up, and in two versions SG16 and SG16S the "S" for 7/8 oz loads

Am I missing something ? Is the Down Range wad same as the SG ? On Down Ranges site it's lacking details. If Ballistic Products does not sell that wad who is the best to order from

Boats

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2170 Location: Florida

The DR16 and SG16 are different wads

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/23050

http://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=DR&i=A16

as careful as people are about weighing their powder , they AREN'T about the shot . Use your scale and get the weight you want verified Before you get too excited about component fit ! Mec bars are something in the 10-20 % lite category .

Member Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Posts: 105 Location: Virginia

That explains that. Ballistic Products does not carry Down Range. Gameliel does but does not list 16's and Precision Reloading shows that wad out of stock. Am going to call Gameliel see if they can get some

You are right about the shot weights, I always check with my powder scale. Few reasons for variance. One all lead does not weigh the same, more antinomy the lighter a pellet is. Hard shot is hard due to higher antimony content. Big reason though shot measures work by volume not weight. Large shot will weigh less for a given volume than small, more air space between pellets. I have found my PW shot bushings are pretty close using 7 ½ shot though.

Boats

http://www.recobstargetshop.com/browse.cfm/2,204.html

http://nelsontactical.com/reloading/downrange-16-gauge-shotgun-wads-3-4-7-8-oz-500ct/

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/23050

http://www.mid-westshooting.com/downrange.html

http://www.gamaliel.com/downrangewads/downrange-16ga-34-78oz.asp

Gamalleil's carries DR16's -mine have been backordered a couple weeks . They say they've been running this way . Better to call Downrange and ask if the gov't has a hold on wad components !

Member Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Posts: 105 Location: Virginia

Called them all, dead end on the DR 16's. Down Range said it will be a couple of weeks before they make a run. Only one supplier has them, said he would take two weeks to ship. Amazing what reloaders have to put up with these days. Will wait out my regulars Ballistic Products and Gamaliel, get all the components same place

Meanwhile Cabellas is shipping the Herters shells will get me going. Need to shoot this gun Oct 24th at the Southern SxS

Thanks for all your help

Boats